|
Post by big_electron on May 27, 2011 23:17:33 GMT -5
A soundbite I like to throw at other unbelievers.
What are your thoughts on it?
|
|
|
Post by Admiral Lithp on May 27, 2011 23:34:27 GMT -5
He's a Christian in that he followed the teachings of Christ, but he is not a Christian in that he identified as a Jew.
I'm sure it gets Fundies butthurt, but you can't be a thing that didn't exist when you were alive.
|
|
|
Post by wmdkitty on May 28, 2011 0:07:59 GMT -5
Course not, he was a JEW!
|
|
|
Post by MaybeNever on May 28, 2011 0:11:14 GMT -5
Uh, well, I think the key belief for Christians is the divinity of Jesus (and to that extent I'd classify the Jews For Jesus crowd as some kind of Christian), which at least Biblically he believed, so I'd say he was indeed a Christian.
|
|
|
Post by wmdkitty on May 28, 2011 0:15:39 GMT -5
Except that all the stories and shit about Jesus' divinity were added decades-to-centuries LATER, to bolster the fledgeling cult.
|
|
|
Post by Shane for Wax on May 28, 2011 0:16:15 GMT -5
how can Jesus be a Christian if he didn't follow himself around?
|
|
|
Post by wmdkitty on May 28, 2011 0:18:01 GMT -5
how can Jesus be a Christian if he didn't follow himself around? That, too.
|
|
|
Post by MaybeNever on May 28, 2011 0:26:40 GMT -5
how can Jesus be a Christian if he didn't follow himself around? I expect even a careful examination of all known references to Jesus would reveal that Jesus was always to be found at the same place Jesus was. He must have followed himself! Even his apostles didn't have that kind of dedication! Except that all the stories and shit about Jesus' divinity were added decades-to-centuries LATER, to bolster the fledgeling cult. I'm not saying that it has any basis in reality, but that's neither here nor there. Biblically, i.e. by the scriptural basis of the group in question, his beliefs and actions were a certain way.
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on May 28, 2011 0:26:47 GMT -5
I'd say (assuming he wasn't just a con man) believed himself to be the Jewish messiah. Jews do believe that a messiah will come at some point if I'm not mistaken, so he was most certainly a Jew (not to mention he was supposedly a rabbi). In fact, early Christians considered themselves to be, and I don't think it would be wrong to disagree with them, Jews. The religion didn't evolve into a separate entity for a few hundred years or so.
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Zachski on May 28, 2011 0:40:08 GMT -5
it was largely Constantine that pulled Christianity into being a separate religion, if I recall correctly.
Most Christians are pretty ignorant of the early days. They assume that one man one woman is the "traditional" marriage method and say that God spoke against polygamy (yet can never give me a Bible verse when I want them to). They don't even realize that hell isn't even anywhere in the Bible. They don't realize a lot of things.
They just doublethink.
Jesus says some pretty contradictory things. Paul contradicts Jesus a lot. Not to mention that it seems like Paul may not have even believed in him except in a gnosticism sense. Paul himself contradicts events in Acts. And yet everyone believes in Paul.
People say that the Qu'ran is made so that later messages trump earlier messages. Maybe this is true. But then the Bible is "believe everything all at once, even the contradictions, because they don't actually exist, and if you see them, this means you're not graced by the Holy Spirit."
And for the record, my views on Islam and Muslims are still the same. Whatever the rules of their holy book are, Muslims are just as pick and choose as Christians are, so such a rule is essentially irrelevant.
|
|
|
Post by Shane for Wax on May 28, 2011 0:41:51 GMT -5
It's like when Fundies say that the founders were Christian.
|
|
|
Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on May 28, 2011 1:06:11 GMT -5
It's like when Fundies say that the founders were Christian. Or Moses.
|
|
|
Post by Iosa the Invincible on May 28, 2011 1:07:39 GMT -5
That seems to go against God being constant and never-changing, which is an argument used by militant Islamists as to why Muslims shouldn't be allowed to change their views along with the rest of world.
But maybe that's just me.
|
|
|
Post by Admiral Lithp on May 28, 2011 1:08:33 GMT -5
Not to mention the gospels telling conflicting stories & the no current-day evidence of Jesus's existence.
I've gone on record saying that both Constantine & Charlemange are more important to Christianity than Jesus.
|
|
|
Post by wmdkitty on May 28, 2011 1:38:19 GMT -5
Am I the only one here that wants to bum a ride on the TARDIS, go back, and stop this Christer bullshit before it even starts? (By which I mean assassinating Constantine AND the entire "council" of Nicea...)
|
|