xotan
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Post by xotan on Jan 2, 2012 15:50:47 GMT -5
The ears! It must be something about that time. Although I am about 20 years younger than Benny I was horrified to see I too, aged 7, have those same ears! Arrrrrgh!
Sorry. Tried to post pic but am totally useless at it.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 25, 2011 19:10:20 GMT -5
@ Itfred,
We will have to agree to leave the matter here. Chrismas day with flu. Knocked for six. Sorry, but having spent most of the day in bed, I am really not in a position to continue the argument. But thanks for your discussion anyway.
Back to bed with a couple of hot water bottles and some paracetemol.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 24, 2011 14:39:34 GMT -5
@ Itfred
"I think some sort of reparations could be part of a development plan for the Third world. "
This is fine if you are a first world country that has colonised and milked a third world country.
"That's hardly Africa's fault- it is, in fact, the fault of Ireland's government, perhaps the most incompetant bunch of mismanaging clowns the world has ever seen. Obviously austerity is the last thing anybody should be doing.
Here's a question: why does nobody suggest slashing the defence budget as an austerity measure? "
Never siad that Africa was responsible for my pension being hatcheted. But no argument about the clowns. (And why leave our Greece, Portugal and Italy? They are politicians, so that speaks for itself. Item no. 1 on any politicians agenda is re-election. Item 2 is appointment to boards that pay. Item 3 is directorships that pay very well.
As to austerity, it is being applied, and with national approval, allowing for some understandable grumbling. Tthere are no riots as in Greece. Ireland should be back in the black within about 2 years.
And what defence budget? It's tiny.
"This is not a major problem is [in] most of Africa. Even Rwanda has largely resolved their ethnic problems, mostly by killing a bunch of Hutus. The big wars are mostly about resources. And corruption doesn't matter. "
You have made my aregument against Western invilvement very cogently.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 23, 2011 15:01:55 GMT -5
Is this Newt Mussolini, by any chance?
Law must stand pure, pristine, and independent of slimy politics or you are already in a dictatorship.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 23, 2011 14:48:35 GMT -5
Everyone knows a pizza is a weapon of mass digestion. Take the little kid out and hang him, like they do in Iran. /sarcasm
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 23, 2011 14:40:14 GMT -5
At last a Weapon of Mass Destruction has been created - self-Destruction.
I wonder how George is feeling today. Vindicated? Or does he notice that his initial irresponsiblity has ultimately released a monster that will probably be worse than Saddam? Keep washing your hands, George. That red ain't paint. I wonder what Gawd is telling you right now to ease your conscience.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 23, 2011 7:33:13 GMT -5
Hello again Wytch,
Sustaining democracy is perahps the major problem. I touched earlier on the aribrariness of the lines drawn in the map by the European powers. These had little or no regard to the tribal areas, far more ancient and important to the indigenous peoples. A tribe will naturally support a leave that stem from it, and see nothing much wrong with being 'more equal' than members of other tribal groupings in their country. This is hardly a sound basis for a democracy. It is also one of the key elements in the rampant corruption that exists. If a tribal leader enriches himself, none of his tribe are likely to object. No doubt some crumbs from the top man's table will fall to those further down the pecking line. So, this whole business will only be solved by Africans. In the meanwhile there are those from outside who will find ways to benefit from the tainted legacy of colonialism.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 22, 2011 19:07:13 GMT -5
Cáit, you were the serpent in that girl's Eden. And the serpent is the symbol of wisdom (Be ye therefore wise as serpents!). You opened her eyes, and it was superbly done!
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 22, 2011 18:52:00 GMT -5
Hello Wytch,
I think we are actually talking past each other. Yes, of course I absolutely accept that colonisation is exploitation. I come from a once colonised country, so my parents and grandparents would have had experience of that. And having researched my family back 250 years, I know what the effects of colonisation are, even in a European context. It is as well to indicate, we were never a colonising power.
My core point is that I cannot see the point in pouring money into a continent that, for whatever reason, over many decades has not been able to better its situation, even with foreign aid, and (certainly from my country) generous private contributions as well. Money does not seem to be the solution.
At home I have seen prosperity become recession, and now experience drastic cuts in my once golden pension, so that I have to ask if my country should be handing out money to places where it has shown no capacity to improve people's lot, whilst our domestic situation is deteriorating with services and incomes being drastically cut. My response is that a country's prime responsibility is to its own people. Therefore, small though our contribution was in comparison with other countries', it was generous on a per capita basis, but should now be cut. Such funds as are being sent abroad should properly be used to repair our own economy and maintain as high a standard of services as possible for our own people. Well and good, when recovery at home is complete, then foreign aid could/should recommence. For the moment, though, cirumstances prohibit me from keeping up any private/personal contribution to aid agencies. I doubt I am alone. But historical reasons seem to keep us from an open and frank discussion of this situation. (In the mid 1840s one million people died of hunger, another million of the associated diseases, and two millions fled abroad. That causes guilt in us, although we were goverened by others. But this is a guilt I will not own.)
I apologise for the delay in responding to you. This is a busy time of year for me.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 20, 2011 11:26:55 GMT -5
Yes, although I no longer live there.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 19, 2011 20:01:15 GMT -5
@ Itfred
I take your point and learn from it. That said, my country is a nett contributor of aid and has no return from it at least not in any direct way , that I can ascertain - apart from minor influence It may well indeed benefit indirectly through its dealings/trade with other countries, but it is certainly in no position to do anything about. The failure of foreign aid is at the core of my thought on this thread. The same problems arise repeatedly, and nothing seems to be gained by Africa from previous painful experience. We see the same piteous pictures emerging from the continent and have the same demands being made by charities and aid agencies. Change must come from within Africa. Throwing money at the problems hasn't worked.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 18, 2011 14:39:38 GMT -5
@ Yla
Given the placing of the comment, and in the absence of any indication otherwise it appeared directed at me. The poster can clarify if he/she chooses.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 18, 2011 14:21:41 GMT -5
Res ipsa loquitur. Try being successful without putting in the effort.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 18, 2011 10:58:08 GMT -5
@ Honky McCracker
I've been posting here for quite a few years. First time I've been called a troll.
As to being a white supremacist, unlikely. A portion of my resources has been given to African aid since I was a 4 year old (yes, out of pocket money as a kid).
@others
With such a strong work ethic (as has been suggested), strange how Mugabe turned a prosperous country into a financial disaster by handing farms being run by whites over to the indigenous population and generally making those of European descent want to get out of the country.
I never suggested that Africans were superior or inferior to anyone.
Where I come from is an ex-colonial European country that had to pay it's former coloniser annuities for quite a number of years, but came our the other end of that particular tunnel and prospered until the recent crash in Europe. Now my income (a pension) is being eaten away. Reason enough to query what is happening to what is still being paid on my behalf in foreign aid to Africa.
@ Itfred
Quite frankly I resent being called a liar. What I said is true. I, and all my classmates handed over our pennies every day, as did schoolchildren in all other schools across the country. That amounted to something in a year - to a lot over my school years. It will have happened in many, if not all Catholic schools across Europe too. In 1947 a penny sterling value (which is what I am talking about) was nothing a minimal as it later became in the late 1960s and later, post decimalisation.
@: Art Vandelay
the sad thing is that in many of the colonized countries, when the Europeans were getting out they left a working infrastructure which was not maintained.
@ all
The hit and run White Supremacist troll charge is thoroughly unfounded. White Supremacists (usually in the USA) are what we read about on the internet or in newspapers. Strange then how, my postings having been pretty well ignored on this board for the past five years or so, it is the current one that has drawn any attention and such offensive comment.
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xotan
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Post by xotan on Dec 17, 2011 15:49:00 GMT -5
Poor Africa. It is the victim of an abandoned colonization by European nations, borders drawn arbitrarily with no regard to the tribalism that was (and still is) more significant than lines on a map.
Since I was in my first class in school, at 4 years old I used to bring in my penny every day for the good Sisters to send 'to the missions' as it was termed in those day. Later I made contributions to organised charities. Part of what I pay in taxes goes in overseas aid to Africa. And I have little doubt that similar things are happening in many other countries. In effect money has been poured into that unfortunate continent for over 60 years of my memory. But to what avail? In effect, Africa is a money pit. Where have all my pennies gone to? Where has all my tax-aid gone to? It is valid to ask where have the vast sums gone that they have produced so little effect in such a long time, and why the TV advertisements are still asking for more.
A tribal society is not in any way as sofisticated in its polity as a developed western country. This is something that has led to the deterioration of what little of worth that was left by the colonists, viz things like the railways. They were never maintained. Many were abandoned, and people reverted to walking. Some still continue,operating in a hopelessly inefficient way and quite undependable. Likewise with roads. Many of the 'European' roads returned to being tracks that are only negotiable in the dry season. A more sinister development was the coming to power of leaders/dictators such as Mugabe; nor must I forget the criminal and dangerous anti-gay campaign in Uganda. Just the tip of the iceberg (hardly an apposite metaphor in Africa!)
I would maintain that the effects of colonization are still being maintained by the support that Africa receives from outside. Aid is, in fact, a political tool.
Now I come to the hard part of my argument, and it is not one that I find in any way palatable. Most reluctantly I have come to the conclusion that the only way for Africa to emerge from the shadow of colonialism and dictators is for outsiders to leave the continent to get on with its own affairs in its own way. I have no illusions that this will mean that countless people will die, but those who rule will have to face up to their own people without the cushion of the favour of the west and the opportunicty to line their pockets from diverted funds that still pour in. Aid is not the answer for those countless are still dying - even as I write. It is only part of the problem - the part that enables other parts to continue. It will never provide the stability and work and self-help ethic that is required if Africa is to stand proud on it own.
I'll probably be stoned for this, but before you cast the first one, let's hear your solution.
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