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Post by Vene on Nov 13, 2011 12:29:33 GMT -5
He introduces himself as Richard Rothschild. He tells the crowd that he ran for county commissioner in Maryland’s Carroll County because he had come to the conclusion that policies to combat global warming were actually “an attack on middle-class American capitalism.” His question for the panelists, gathered in a Washington, DC, Marriott Hotel in late June, is this: “To what extent is this entire movement simply a green Trojan horse, whose belly is full with red Marxist socioeconomic doctrine?”
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So let’s summarize. Responding to climate change requires that we break every rule in the free-market playbook and that we do so with great urgency. We will need to rebuild the public sphere, reverse privatizations, relocalize large parts of economies, scale back overconsumption, bring back long-term planning, heavily regulate and tax corporations, maybe even nationalize some of them, cut military spending and recognize our debts to the global South. Of course, none of this has a hope in hell of happening unless it is accompanied by a massive, broad-based effort to radically reduce the influence that corporations have over the political process. That means, at a minimum, publicly funded elections and stripping corporations of their status as “people” under the law. In short, climate change supercharges the pre-existing case for virtually every progressive demand on the books, binding them into a coherent agenda based on a clear scientific imperative.
More than that, climate change implies the biggest political “I told you so” since Keynes predicted German backlash from the Treaty of Versailles. Marx wrote about capitalism’s “irreparable rift” with “the natural laws of life itself,” and many on the left have argued that an economic system built on unleashing the voracious appetites of capital would overwhelm the natural systems on which life depends. And of course indigenous peoples were issuing warnings about the dangers of disrespecting “Mother Earth” long before that. The fact that the airborne waste of industrial capitalism is causing the planet to warm, with potentially cataclysmic results, means that, well, the naysayers were right. And the people who said, “Hey, let’s get rid of all the rules and watch the magic happen” were disastrously, catastrophically wrong. churchandstate.org.uk/2011/11/capitalism-vs-the-climate/Read the rest of it. But, this does make a pretty solid case that trying to argue against denalists with the science will accomplish nothing. They don't care about the science and the vast majority have no understanding of it anyway (hell, there are people in the group who deny the world's quantity of oil is limited). We need a radical restructuring of the world's social order if we are going to accomplish anything in regards to global warming. Personally, I'm pessimistic and fully expect us to fuck over everything as the mass extinction event we created continues. |
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Post by Yla on Nov 13, 2011 15:53:52 GMT -5
An interesting viewpoint
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Post by brendanrizzo on Nov 13, 2011 19:54:46 GMT -5
So, this particular climate-change denialist and conspiracy theorist is named Richard Rothschild? Would he be a member of the Rothschild family? If so, then in addition to the spectacular irony of a Rothschild propagating conspiracy theories, he has absolutely no business to be discussing what is best for the middle class.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 13, 2011 20:54:05 GMT -5
One thing I hear a lot, & not necessarily from denialists(?), is "why have the last few winters been so cold?"
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Post by Vene on Nov 13, 2011 21:17:40 GMT -5
Have they been colder? They've been showier, but this is consistent with global warming.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 13, 2011 23:15:32 GMT -5
Wouldn't colder also be consistent? My understanding is that it's the displaced--uhh--cold from the melting ice cap navigating down.
I don't actually know if the winters have been colder, though I sure would not doubt it.
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Post by Vene on Nov 13, 2011 23:27:22 GMT -5
Wouldn't colder also be consistent? My understanding is that it's the displaced--uhh--cold from the melting ice cap navigating down. I don't actually know if the winters have been colder, though I sure would not doubt it. From the summary: Wintertime temperatures have been increasing across the northern United States.
* Since the 1970s, December-February temperature increases have ranged from 1 to 2 degrees in the Pacific Northwest to about 4 degrees in the Northeast to more than 6 degrees in Alaska.
* Winters are getting shorter, too. Spring arrives 10-14 days earlier than it did just 20 years ago. Looking at the pdf, there have been warmer winter temperatures, less ice cover on water bodies, and more precipitation. Personally speaking, I've noticed winters starting later and later. I've also noticed that the snow has taken to melting in the middle of winter. Which is absolutely bizarre to me. That simply did not happen when I was a kid, you got the first snowfall a little after Halloween (maybe a dusting before) and the snow stayed until Spring when it started to melt somewhere around late March or sometime in April. |
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 13, 2011 23:45:25 GMT -5
See, I've noticed pretty much the opposite. When I was a kid, it was unusual for it to snow in October. Though, that's to the best of my recollection, & we all know what that's worth.
As for it seeming colder, maybe it's the wind, or something.
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Post by ltfred on Nov 13, 2011 23:54:01 GMT -5
These conservatives cannot be reasoned with, they cannot be convince, they cannot be compromised with in the long run. They can only be defeated. Pre-compromise is not acceptable- they must be defeated at the ballot-box, and their policy must be unilaterally smashed. Today is the most important political conflict of all time. If conservatives win, humanity itself may end.
It is not acceptable to add together and divide by two. If you do that, you're a conservative and you want to end the world.
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Post by sylvana on Nov 14, 2011 2:04:10 GMT -5
These conservatives cannot be reasoned with, they cannot be convince, they cannot be compromised with in the long run. They can only be defeated. Pre-compromise is not acceptable- they must be defeated at the ballot-box, and their policy must be unilaterally smashed. Today is the most important political conflict of all time. If conservatives win, humanity itself may end. It is not acceptable to add together and divide by two. If you do that, you're a conservative and you want to end the world. You know, you sound exactly just like they do when ranting about anything from the "socialist communist Nazi leftists" to "gay Muslim fascist abortionists." The sad thing is that you are essentially right. The Republican majority in congress proves how unless they are defeated, they will not compromise one iota in their campaigns. They quite honestly would rather destroy everything and take everyone with them, than compromise and find a solution. |
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Post by ltfred on Nov 14, 2011 3:57:45 GMT -5
[quote author=sylvana board=pg thread=10339 post=357088 time=1321254250 You know, you sound exactly just like they do when ranting about anything from the "socialist communist Nazi leftists" to "gay Muslim fascist abortionists." [/quote]
That's an indication of how deranged these people are. Not only are they wrong, reality is actually the opposite.
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Post by Yla on Nov 14, 2011 4:42:49 GMT -5
You know, you sound exactly just like they do when ranting about anything from the "socialist communist Nazi leftists" to "gay Muslim fascist abortionists." That's an indication of how deranged these people are. Not only are they wrong, reality is actually the opposite. Aims, shoots, and misses the point. |
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Post by ltfred on Nov 14, 2011 5:38:17 GMT -5
That's an indication of how deranged these people are. Not only are they wrong, reality is actually the opposite. Aims, shoots, and misses the point. If you think I'm wrong, make an argument. |
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Nov 14, 2011 6:32:14 GMT -5
One thing I hear a lot, & not necessarily from denialists(?), is "why have the last few winters been so cold?" A lot of these fuckheads are the same mental midgets who ask why there are still monkeys! Is anyone surprised? |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Nov 14, 2011 11:24:38 GMT -5
Aims, shoots, and misses the point. If you think I'm wrong, make an argument. You're not just wrong, you're completely missing the point. Like... Question: What is the square root of 4? Answer: I'd like a cheeseburger, a soda, and some fries That is how much you missed the point you were responding to. |
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