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Post by lisamariefan on Dec 11, 2011 12:48:23 GMT -5
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned one particular phrase that irks me. Of course, I have Rick Perry to thank for reminding me of this one.
"Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion"
I really think that's such an annoying fucking saying.
They seriously think that these things are independent?
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Dec 11, 2011 22:06:30 GMT -5
"Freedom of religion just means freedom to practice Christianity however you want! (Unless you're Catholic!)"
"Separation of church & state is nowhere in the Constitution!"
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 12, 2011 18:04:19 GMT -5
"Freedom of religion just means freedom to practice Christianity however you want! (Unless you're Catholic!)" "Separation of church & state is nowhere in the Constitution!" I'm pretty sure Benjamin Franklin, the Man himself, wrote a letter to a Connecticut church where he explained that not only was a "separation of church and state" ideal, but that it was the reason he supported the first amendment.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Dec 12, 2011 21:27:26 GMT -5
STILL NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION! WE WIN!
Seriously, though, what I hate about it is that the Constitution isn't supposed to be viewed in the same way they view their Bibles. There are things that cover the separation; the supreme court, the elastic clause, etc. Then they'll want to turn around & say:
"Atheism is a religion, the supreme court said so!"
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Post by tgrwulf on Dec 13, 2011 2:48:13 GMT -5
I'm sure a lot of these have been mentioned but:
"It's not a religion it's a relationship!"
"God works in mysterious ways."
"He's/She's in a better place now."
The one that pisses me off the most though is "I'll pray for you." It's basically a very backhanded way of saying "I'm better than you."
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czechmate
Full Member
Czech Republic / UK
Posts: 123
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Post by czechmate on Dec 13, 2011 4:43:42 GMT -5
Perhaps you could tell the religious that ALL of the original female saints were Celtic godesses of which Mary was #1. This was the only way the church could cajole the Celts into accepting their Mickey Mouse religion.
I agree with "Freedom OF Religion" which means you can accept it or reject it, but your constitution clearly states than NOBODY should be harrassed because of their belief, regardless of what that belief may be.
Over here in Europe, we threw out religion from influencing state affairs. We are now celebrating our 7th decade without a war for the first time in our written history. The USA however has been at war almost continuously since Pearl Harbor, being involved in 47 wars that were of none of its concern in order to "protect the interests of the USA".
Norway, the most atheist country in Europe, is #1 in virtually all positive aspects of human society.
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Post by Iosa the Invincible on Dec 13, 2011 6:16:39 GMT -5
This really isn't a phrase, but rather an argument.
"Stalin/Mao killed more people than any religious cause combined, so that automatically makes atheism more dangerous!"
Even if we accept that Stalin and Mao were staunch atheists, and even if we accept that they killed in the name of atheism (which can and has been argued against), that doesn't exonerate religion from its atrocities. I started thinking about this due to a thread in Christian Forums where someone decided to list the atrocities of atheism and secularism. While this wasn't the OP post, we have this:
Even by their own "evidence", "atheism" may have killed more people, but religion still has more instances of causing atrocities in its name (six separate instances compared to "atheism's" five). This leads me to believe that while "atheism" has killed more people in total, atrocities are still more likely to be waged in the name of religion.
Oh, and as for Robespierre being an "atheist" dictator, according to Wikipedia, he wasn't an atheist, he was a deist, and in fact hated a certain political party for their "atheism." So even in their own examples, they're still wrong.
Of course, one poster before this post probably made the most reasonable argument, saying that it is stupid to say that atrocities are only caused by either atheism or religion, and that the real cause was simply greed and power lust. This is the reason why I hate the other argument used by extreme atheists that say "Without religion, there'd be no wars." No, without religion, there'd be one less excuse for war, but humanity would still find reasons to kill each other.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 13, 2011 6:30:09 GMT -5
There's something missing in that list. But I can't quite put my juice down in order to figure it out.
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Kali
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Kali on Dec 13, 2011 6:34:20 GMT -5
They forgot WWII. wasn't Hitler a Christian?
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Post by brendanrizzo on Dec 13, 2011 11:51:56 GMT -5
They also forgot most of the Catholic vs. Protestant fighting in the Renaissance. Queen Mary of England killed as many Protestants as she could, and Elizabeth proved she was no better by killing at least as many Catholics. (But for some reason, only the former was demonized in English history...) There was also persecution of Anabaptists in Switzerland at the hands of Lutherans and Catholics, the killing of the Huguenots by the Catholics, the Christian Europeans killing and enslaving the "heathen" in Africa and the Americas (including the absolute genocide of the Taino) the Taiping Rebellion (instigated by a man who claimed to be the Second Coming. It killed 20 million people.) and, in more modern times, the Troubles of Northern Ireland, which is pretty much pure Renaissance-style Catholics and Protestants mutually killing each other because they hate freedom of religion. If I left anything out, please add some more stuff.
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Post by brendanrizzo on Dec 13, 2011 12:20:12 GMT -5
Perhaps you could tell the religious that ALL of the original female saints were Celtic godesses of which Mary was #1. This was the only way the church could cajole the Celts into accepting their Mickey Mouse religion. I agree with "Freedom OF Religion" which means you can accept it or reject it, but your constitution clearly states than NOBODY should be harrassed because of their belief, regardless of what that belief may be. Over here in Europe, we threw out religion from influencing state affairs. We are now celebrating our 7th decade without a war for the first time in our written history. The USA however has been at war almost continuously since Pearl Harbor, being involved in 47 wars that were of none of its concern in order to "protect the interests of the USA". Norway, the most atheist country in Europe, is #1 in virtually all positive aspects of human society. Czechmate, do you have any source on the female saints thing? I'm pretty sure that at least some of them were not Celtic. Mary, the mother of Jesus, certainly was not. Now, for the "Europe has not fought a war in 70 years" thing, please clarify as to whether you mean all of Europe, the countries that make up the EU, or just one European country. Because if you mean all of Europe, then you are simply wrong. First, the Second World War ended fewer than 70 years ago, and more importantly, there was a rather major war fought in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990s. (A war which, I should point out, showed the MASSIVE hypocrisy of Western Europe when it comes to human rights violations.) Not to mention that, though European countries may not have fought amongst themselves, they were hardly peaceful. France fought against all of its former colonies in order to stop them from getting independence (Algeria and Vietnam the First come to mind instantly) and the British fought the Indians, among others. But I guess only white people count when war is involved? Also, do you consider covert operations to be war? Because that's the only way I could see the US being perpetually at war since 1941. And if you count covert ops, then Britain has also been in a state of perpetual war. I am pretty sure that the 1980s and 1990s were very peaceful decades.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 13, 2011 12:24:57 GMT -5
Not Celtic goddesses but I would say Pagan goddesses.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 13, 2011 14:53:48 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Mary ended up being "merged" with one of the big-name Pagan/Celtic Goddesses, making her still count.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Dec 13, 2011 14:57:24 GMT -5
I'm kind of impressed that person had the balls to admit that Christianity committed any atrocities at all. I shouldn't have to settle for that.
But they always do list the dumbest people on "atheism's" side. I doubt many of them even know what Robespierre was doing, except killing a bunch of people.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 13, 2011 15:49:47 GMT -5
That is also a phrase I really hate (bolded). Atheists have the potential to be more diverse than probably any other group, and are certainly more diverse than people of a single religion, or at least a major sect of a religion.
Edit: fixed.
Also, the reason why religious people didn't kill as many people back then is because 1. the population was much lower and 2. they didn't have the resources to build all those death machines.
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