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Post by Vypernight on May 31, 2009 4:10:23 GMT -5
FYI, Abortion is not even mentioned in the bible - that includes the Quran, the Torah* or any other religious book. *also includes the Talmud, which is the book upon which the interpretation of the Torah texts are studied. (Talmud means "study" in Hebrew) Furthermore, homosexuality is mentioned only by interpretation. For those of you who are hooked on the KJV of the Goat Sodomisers Guide to Brainwashing the Gullible bible, King James I of England (aka King James VI of Scotland) was a raving homosexual. "Thou shalt not kill." Forget about the fact that millions of people are summarily wiped off the face of the Earth for being in the wrong place at the wrong time a few chapters later. Ignore the part where the found of Judaism nearly turns his son into a pin cushion 'for God.' And don't even bother with the newborns wiped out because the pharoah was a prick. The Bibles says don't kill, even if it means shooting a doctor so he won't kill something we don't even know it's alive. God's law is as clear as my sarcasm (okay, maybe not).
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Post by doomie 22 on May 31, 2009 11:49:24 GMT -5
I agree that the original purpose of organized religion was to control people by first controlling their most basic urges, like sex. At some point governing bodies must have realized that giving their people a unifying system of beliefs was a powerful tool of control and this is when religion stopped being a simple collection of myths and became the institution they we know it as today. However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that religious leaders today aren't aware of this but by upholding the same dogma they are essentially serving the same purpose without knowing it.
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Post by canadian mojo on May 31, 2009 12:51:46 GMT -5
However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that religious leaders today aren't aware of this but by upholding the same dogma they are essentially serving the same purpose without knowing it. Counter arguement: the wedge document.
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Post by canadian mojo on May 31, 2009 12:55:49 GMT -5
The current ad for this page: Toronto Abortion Clinic 100% OHIP covered - No extra fees Warm & supportive, all-women staff www.choiceinhealth.ca Government funded abortions, another reason for fundies to hate Canada.
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Post by Tiger on May 31, 2009 13:06:22 GMT -5
The Bibles says don't kill, even if it means shooting a doctor so he won't kill something we don't even know it's alive. Fetuses are definitely alive. The question is whether they should carry the same rights as a human being. However, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that religious leaders today aren't aware of this but by upholding the same dogma they are essentially serving the same purpose without knowing it. Counter arguement: the wedge document. Still no reason to believe that the authors of that document are trying to manipulate religious believers for their own ends. They believe every word they're saying, unaware that they've devoted their lives to a system of political control.
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Post by Oriet on May 31, 2009 16:04:23 GMT -5
Tiger: I wouldn't say that most actively work to control their congregations, but since it is a part of their belief system they hold on to that control very tight. Some churches though do actively seek more control and power. After all, they create an emotional void in the people by telling them that basic, instinctual needs and desires (such as different kinds of food, having them fast, denying sexual desires, or denying other activities that can release endorphins, like dancing or rock music) are wrong, and then claim to have something that will fill that emotional void. Also, if one looks at the services there's a bit of controlled mob mentality and brainwashing techniques (here's a good page on it's techniques: www.whale.to/w/mind.html) in them. Most of it is accidentally stumbled upon instead of being intelligently used, but that doesn't stop it from being effective. You also have to consider that most preachers seek to expand their membership, whether like a televangelist who's in it for the money, or a local pastor who's trying to expand membership cause they think they're helping people (misdirected intentions cause a lot of damage). So yes, I agree that the majority of the time it's not through maliciousness, but rather done through stupidity.
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Post by Tiger on May 31, 2009 16:26:14 GMT -5
Some churches though do actively seek more control and power. Because they think that it's what God wants them to do. The difference is mostly in intent. They don't want power for themselves, they want power for Jesus. (Televangelists and megachurch leaders excluded. Though even then it's mostly just about duping credulous morons who already believe, not about actively trying to control them.) I'll have to look over that page when I get back home tonight. We are in agreement, then.
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Post by Thejebusfire on May 31, 2009 16:46:49 GMT -5
FYI, Abortion is not even mentioned in the bible - that includes the Quran, the Torah* or any other religious book. *also includes the Talmud, which is the book upon which the interpretation of the Torah texts are studied. (Talmud means "study" in Hebrew) Furthermore, homosexuality is mentioned only by interpretation. For those of you who are hooked on the KJV of the Goat Sodomisers Guide to Brainwashing the Gullible bible, King James I of England (aka King James VI of Scotland) was a raving homosexual. Actually, a lot of fundies seem to use the I kneweth thou in the womb” verse.
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Post by Rime on May 31, 2009 17:59:10 GMT -5
The current ad for this page: Toronto Abortion Clinic 100% OHIP covered - No extra fees Warm & supportive, all-women staff www.choiceinhealth.ca Government funded abortions, another reason for fundies to hate Canada. And ironically, the abortion rates are much lower in Ontario than they are in several states.
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Post by mice34 on May 31, 2009 19:09:00 GMT -5
They're not really concerned about lowering abortion rates, or they wouldn't be against sex ed, birth control, condoms, & morning after pills. They want to enslave women. Yeah, I really believe that.
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Post by wmdkitty on May 31, 2009 20:34:04 GMT -5
They're not really concerned about lowering abortion rates, or they wouldn't be against sex ed, birth control, condoms, & morning after pills. They want to enslave women. Yeah, I really believe that. It's all about regaining the "traditional" patriarchal control they used to have over women. The world is changing and they don't like it.
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Post by Paradox on Jun 2, 2009 10:18:04 GMT -5
Fred Clark had a series of articles trying to figure out why Christians today seem so obsessed about The Gay. You can find them here starting near the bottom of the page. It's important to remember that we're not all like that. I certainly don't dislike gay people, and I support abortion rights. It's a bit offensive when you group us all with the wingnuts, because Christians are a very diverse group of people with a wide variety of opinions. I'd like everyone to remember that.
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Post by Paradox on Jun 2, 2009 10:24:49 GMT -5
King James I of England (aka King James VI of Scotland) was a raving homosexual. The joke going around at the time was that Elizabeth was King, now James is the Queen. I shit you not.
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Post by Bluefinger on Jun 2, 2009 10:26:36 GMT -5
King James I of England (aka King James VI of Scotland) was a raving homosexual. The joke going around at the time was that Elizabeth was King, now James is the Queen. I shit you not. Which makes it incredibly hilarious when you realise that a lot of fundies use the KJV as their chosen edition, taking that little historical nugget into account. Life is not without its delicious ironies...
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Post by Paradox on Jun 2, 2009 10:32:54 GMT -5
The joke going around at the time was that Elizabeth was King, now James is the Queen. I shit you not. Which makes it incredibly hilarious when you realise that a lot of fundies use the KJV as their chosen edition, taking that little historical nugget into account. Life is not without its delicious ironies... And the irony of it all is completely lost on them. It seems that a lot of religious fanatics have malfunctioning irony meters. Here, look at this. Isn't that the best irony ever? I estimate that a single post from Answers in Genesis contains enough irony to fuel the entire internet for more than a month. And it's a renewable resource too.
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