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Post by Vene on Jun 8, 2009 21:35:48 GMT -5
They're my bloody testicles See a doctor about those.
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Post by shiftyeyes on Jun 8, 2009 22:30:18 GMT -5
On a related note I had an interesting conversation with my conservative christian father recently. He was arguing that while men aren't better than women God did design them to have different purposes, roles, strengths, etc. He was saying women were designed by god to be more nurturing because they take care of the children, while men are more leaders because they go out and take care of the household etc. Pretty sexist but he's in his 60's, he's from a different time so I try to cut him some slack. So I replied that if it god's design for women to bear and raise children then my infertility means that god has made sure that I can never fulfill the perfect design/purpose he has for me (and i guess all women). So by the fact that I'm trying to pursue degrees and a professional career, I'm rebelling against gods design. He said that wasn't what he was trying to say and he told me I have every right to pursue a career but I was trying to get him to think critically about the position he was asserting. I also tried to explain that beliefs like his (that women as a majority belong in the home) is what made it so difficult for women to pursue professional and scientific careers. Many men often harassed women who tried to enter the professional realm in the 50's, believing they were taking these jobs from men who needed them to support their families...I know I've gone off on a tagent but it just pisses me off when people convey the message that women are nothing but a womb. It seems as though one tack to take with people who make this sort of argument (group X, on average is better at skill A than group Y), which is usually thinly veiled bigotry, is to deal with mean versus variance. Even if the premise is true, it doesn't account for variation in specific people. Though women may on average be more nurturing and less leaderly (I don't endorse this), why is it so hard to believe that there are women who are significantly above average on leadership or below on nurturing, or vise-versa for men. Although men on average are taller than women, I'm shorter than plenty of women. It seems as though this, as well as many other fundy fallacies could be corrected by some basic statistics.
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Post by malendras on Jun 9, 2009 0:44:07 GMT -5
[rant]
"Parenthood is not a hobby, but represents one of the most crucial opportunities for the making of saints found in this life." "Animals breed. Human beings procreate and raise children to the glory of God." "To demand that marriage means sex--but not children--is to defraud the creator of His joy and pleasure in seeing the saints raising His children. That is just the way it is. No kidding."
Because babies, children, people aren't actually people - they're just opportunities to make more followers of your religion to give you 10%+ of your income and continue making more people who give you money and also try to convince even more people to give you money. This isn't about morals, or god, or spirituality - it's about you making a whole lot of other people who agree with you and give you their cash. This is an extension of the quiverfull bullshit, if not quiverfull bullshit itself (they even cited the quiverfull favorite bible verse that the movement gets their name from) and they don't see their followers as thinking, independent people with minds of their own.
They see their followers as tools, in the literal sense of the word. They're what (not who) the leaders use to get whatever they want - influence, power, money, whatever. You, the common follower, give them money and time and your vote and never see a bit of the results. They claim it's all for the Glory Of God (TM), but god's ideas seem to benefit the leader of their particular sect way too fucking much. You see, these aren't people, these are just soldiers in the army of gawd and jebus! They should be GLAD to give away their hard-earned money and time and raise more little soldiers for their wonderous pastor who's got a hotline straight to jesus' kitchen phone.
I'm sorry, bit of a tangent there.
I don't want kids. I don't like kids, and I don't live or like the kind of lifestyle that having children would entail. I honestly don't think I'd be a good father. Yeah, I'm young, I'm only 20, and I could change my mind in the future - but I've put a hell of a lot of thought into it, and I just do not want children. You want kids? Great. If it makes you happy, and you think you'd do well as a parent, it's wonderful to have kids. It'd be much better if you adopted those who aren't lucky enough to have parent(s) that can or will raise them, but I'm not gonna get on that. It's just that my decision not to have children gets a lot of people's panties in a bunch, and I don't understand why. Granted, most people have a natural urge to have children - but why have an inherent dislike of those who don't? What's wrong with my decision not to have kids? I just don't understand the reasoning. It'd be nice to not have half my family screaming protests at me when I say "I'm not sure if I want kids."
[/rant]
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doktor
Junior Member
So ronery...
Posts: 90
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Post by doktor on Jun 9, 2009 0:47:33 GMT -5
They don't count blacks and hispanics as people When they publish these, they ask for White Wimmin to pop out slimy crotch muffins instead of planning for a real kid. See a doctor about those. I guess he is British.
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Post by renaissanceblonde on Jun 9, 2009 2:30:56 GMT -5
Childfree and happy.
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Post by Angel on Jun 9, 2009 2:50:22 GMT -5
When/if I have kids, I hope it'll be because I want and love them, and no so I can have my own domain full of little people to control.
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Post by Maryland Bear on Jun 9, 2009 10:08:31 GMT -5
I once heard a moderate to liberal Christian comment on similar issues.
His argument was something like:
Yes, the Bible does tell us "be fruitful and multiply". But when it tells us to till the fields, no one uses that argument to condemn a farmer who lets a field lie fallow for a season to replenish the nutrients or whatever.
The minister argued that humanity has fulfilled the command to "be fruitful and multiply" and its time to slow down. We need to acknowledge that we have reached the limits of God's creation's capability to sustain life.
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Post by rookie on Jun 9, 2009 12:06:50 GMT -5
I'm still not seeing how in the blue hell anyone's decision to have/not have kids is someone else's business. Yes, I know I'm talking about funtards who see everything and everyone as their business. So you're trying to guilt me into having kids? Fuck you! Oops, I just persecuted you, didn't I? Tell you what. Explain to me how an all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent deity can be so easily offended whenever we use the free will he supposedly gave us. Explain how the act is a sin but the result is god's divine plan. Explain how you can sit there with a straight face and say you know god's plan and then say he moves in mysterious ways in the same breath.
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Post by Death on Jun 9, 2009 17:59:19 GMT -5
I'm just not seeing all the "pressure" to have children that others see.
I chose to have only one and other than a bitch of a mother in law no one ever said anything to me about having more children.
And I never saw anything in the wider society of Australia either. Maybe it's a cultural and in the case of this thread an American phenomenon.
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geekysock
Junior Member
Wait...what?
Posts: 80
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Post by geekysock on Jun 9, 2009 18:01:47 GMT -5
I'm personally tired of telling people that I'm not ready for kids and having them respond with, "Well, it's good that you recognize your selfishness."
?!?!
Yes. It's very selfish of me not to bring a child into a situation where I wouldn't be able to afford to take care of them. It's very selfish of me to not bring a child into a situation where I can't guarantee them health insurance. I'm so selfish because the world is a fucked-up place and adding to the overcrowding just doesn't seem terribly logical.
It'd be much more selfless to squat out a crotchfruit in the trailer park and just believe that gawd will provide...
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Post by Death on Jun 9, 2009 18:24:19 GMT -5
I'm personally tired of telling people that I'm not ready for kids and having them respond with, " Well, it's good that you recognize your selfishness." ?!?! Yes. It's very selfish of me not to bring a child into a situation where I wouldn't be able to afford to take care of them. It's very selfish of me to not bring a child into a situation where I can't guarantee them health insurance. I'm so selfish because the world is a fucked-up place and adding to the overcrowding just doesn't seem terribly logical. It'd be much more selfless to squat out a crotchfruit in the trailer park and just believe that gawd will provide... Then stop talking to arseholes about your personal life, which is none of their business.
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geekysock
Junior Member
Wait...what?
Posts: 80
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Post by geekysock on Jun 9, 2009 18:26:52 GMT -5
I'm personally tired of telling people that I'm not ready for kids and having them respond with, " Well, it's good that you recognize your selfishness." ?!?! Yes. It's very selfish of me not to bring a child into a situation where I wouldn't be able to afford to take care of them. It's very selfish of me to not bring a child into a situation where I can't guarantee them health insurance. I'm so selfish because the world is a fucked-up place and adding to the overcrowding just doesn't seem terribly logical. It'd be much more selfless to squat out a crotchfruit in the trailer park and just believe that gawd will provide... Then stop talking to arseholes about your personal life, which is none of their business. Extended family. (Who are indeed, arseholes, but I can't generally dodge the question from the fam...)
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Post by Death on Jun 9, 2009 18:30:05 GMT -5
Then stop talking to arseholes about your personal life, which is none of their business. Extended family. Being family doesn't give them special rights to be abusive. In fact, shouldn't they be even nicer to you than strangers?
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Post by Khaine on Jun 10, 2009 1:39:27 GMT -5
I have to wonder where this puts me. I discovered a few years back that I was sterile. Most likely because of childhood illness. Now I've never been married, and because of my age doubt I ever will be, but I use to think that I would and that we would have had children.
So, since I cannot have kids am I some sort of abomination in the eyes of these fundies?
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Post by Lady Renae on Jun 10, 2009 2:04:18 GMT -5
Yes, Khaine, your sterility is a curse from God for some sin in your life or the life of your father, for the sons shall be punished for the sins of the fathers (sometimes even unto seven generations). It's possible you are even being punished for being born, because if you were conceived in a way that God didn't want, then you have sinned by living and are at fault for your very birth.
I could go on, but I think the message is commonly known here...
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