Post by m52nickerson on Dec 20, 2009 17:06:58 GMT -5
I have been going to Churchwork's chat page that he posted in a few threads....
He is so stupid that he can only talk about his failed proof.
Here is my latest chat.
(16:08:07) Churchwork: Hey.
(16:08:37) (m52nickerson): Hello again church....do you follow politics?
(16:08:39) Churchwork: I just wrote this. Calvinists are unsaved. biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3543-Why-is-Totally-Depravity-Wrong-(This-is-Deep)&p=7003#post7003
(16:08:52) Churchwork: A little.
(16:09:18) (m52nickerson): What is your take on the Health Care Bill moving through the senate.
(16:09:51) Churchwork: Why are you asking me this? Let's talk about the fact you are not born-again and thus, will go to Hell.
(16:10:03) Churchwork: Nothing is more important that your salvation.
(16:11:01) (m52nickerson): We have talked about that before. You failed to convince me......and I really don't care. I'm more interested in talking about health care right now.
(16:11:45) Churchwork: How come you can't convince me to disprove the proof?
(16:11:52) (m52nickerson): Look at it this way, if someone else comes by to talk about salvation you can go with them. Until then we can chat about other things.
(16:12:27) Churchwork: Shutting your mind down to the data is disingenuous isn't it?
(16:12:42) Churchwork: If the universe can't come from nothing and can't always have existed what other choice is there than the uncreated must exist?
(16:12:47) Churchwork: Isn't that logical?
(16:14:12) Churchwork: I'm just trying to show you that you are not being honest with yourself.
(16:14:23) Churchwork: And it is that dishonesty with self that separates you from reality.
(16:14:39) (m52nickerson): That is logical. The problem is that the uncaused can be beginning of space-time.
(16:14:53) Churchwork: No.
(16:15:02) (m52nickerson): Why
(16:15:10) Churchwork: The beginning of space time needs a cause. Like I said, it can't start from nothing.
(16:15:29) Churchwork: It began, it has an explanation.
(16:15:39) Churchwork: Something can't come from that which does not exist.
(16:15:48) Churchwork: So the cause is uncaused.
(16:15:53) (m52nickerson): No that is illogical. Before the beginning to space-time there was nothing, so there was no cause.
(16:15:55) Churchwork: As strange as that may seem we give into it.
(16:16:12) Churchwork: If there was no cause before space time then the universe wouldn't exist.
(16:16:27) Churchwork: Yet it does exist, so we know the bringer of the universe is Himself uncaused.
(16:17:45) (m52nickerson): Well we know the Universe exists, and we know it has not always. Since the universe encompasses everything, nothing could exist before it.
(16:18:25) Churchwork: If it didn't always exist then it has an explanation.
(16:18:43) Churchwork: So your mistaken assumptin is: universe encompasses everything.
(16:18:50) Churchwork: Obviously it doesn't encompass the explanation.
(16:19:02) (m52nickerson): Yes. The main explanation is the big bang theory.
(16:19:17) Churchwork: The explanation is what caused the big bang.
(16:19:53) Churchwork: The explanation is uncaused.
(16:19:55) (m52nickerson): Nothing, again before the big bang there was nothing so what caused it is an illogical question.
(16:20:19) Churchwork: "Nothing" can't produce something.
(16:20:37) Churchwork: So to say it came from nothing is illogical.
(16:21:01) (m52nickerson): Correct nothing can't produce anything. The big bang produced the universe.
(16:21:24) Churchwork: Christians believe the big bang produced the universe. That's not in question.
(16:21:36) Churchwork: What caused the big bang necessarily must be uncaused.
(16:21:36) (m52nickerson): Ok
(16:22:12) Churchwork: The uncaused was always existing, uncreated, intelligent, personal, transcendant, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.
(16:22:20) Churchwork: Immanent.
(16:22:28) (m52nickerson): There was nothing before the big bang, so it must be uncaused. To ask what caused it is an illogical question.
(16:22:56) Churchwork: If the universe was uncaused then it must have always been existing right?
(16:23:29) (m52nickerson): No. The universe was created in the big bang, which was uncaused.
(16:23:29) Churchwork: Since it can't begin to exist from nothing.
(16:23:57) Churchwork: That which begins to exist needs an explanation.
(16:24:21) (m52nickerson): The explanation is the big bang.
(16:24:28) Churchwork: The big bang began to exist.
(16:24:35) Churchwork: It needs an explanation.
(16:24:51) Churchwork: Do you see how you shut your mind down like a zombie for Satan and don't ask what caused it?
(16:24:55) (m52nickerson): The big bang was an uncaused event.
(16:25:15) Churchwork: Something that begins to happen needs an explanation. The big bang began to exist.
(16:25:36) Churchwork: Hence, the big bang was caused.
(16:25:50) Churchwork: If the big bang always existed for eternity
that would be silling wouldn't it?
(16:26:12) (m52nickerson): Nothing existed before the big bang, the big bang happened, therefore it was uncased.
(16:26:30) (m52nickerson): Time did not exist before the
big bang.
(16:26:33) Churchwork: The big bang happened, therefore it has a cause.
(16:26:40) Churchwork: All things that begin to happen have a cause.
(16:26:49) (m52nickerson): Only in you mind.
(16:26:52) Churchwork: That is what the evidence tells us of trillions of causes in nature.
(16:27:02) Churchwork: Evidence wins out over your non-evidence.
(16:27:33) Churchwork: Time can't start up all by itself, nor can the big bang.
(16:27:47) Churchwork: That's goofy. Right?
(16:28:01) (m52nickerson): Trillions of causes are irrelevant since we know nothing existed before the big bang so it could have no cause.
(16:28:30) Churchwork: If nothing existed b efore the big bang then the universe wouldn't exist since something can't come from nothing or start up all by itself.
(16:28:48) Churchwork: Trillions of causes say so.
(16:28:50) (m52nickerson): But it did so you are wrong.
(16:29:10) Churchwork: Evidence says otherwise, with trillions of causes.
(16:29:28) Churchwork: It's like you are playing a lottery with odds against you more than a trillion to 1.
(16:29:34) Churchwork: You surely lose.
(16:29:44) (m52nickerson): Again irrelevant.
(16:29:49) Churchwork: Vital.
(16:29:57) Churchwork: God said He proves Himself by observing nature.
(16:29:59) Churchwork: Key.
(16:30:52) Churchwork: We are past Step 1 of the proof because you admit the universe didn't always exist.
(16:30:56) (m52nickerson): The by your logic everything needs a cause, what caused God........and don't say that is illogical because it is just as illogical as asking what caused the big bang.
(16:31:02) Churchwork: Step 2 says something can't come from nothing or start up all by itself.
(16:31:26) Churchwork: By the logic everything in nature needs a cause, thus pointing to the uncaused which is God.
(16:31:27) (m52nickerson): Step two is in error, I have shown that.
(16:31:47) Churchwork: We observe nature needs causes, so we are left with only one viable option the uncaused is the cause.
(16:31:55) Churchwork: The Uncaused Cause - God!
(16:31:59) (m52nickerson): No the uncasued is the big bang. Since nothing existed before.
(16:32:05) Churchwork: Step 2 you couldn't challenge.
(16:32:19) (m52nickerson): I did and proved it wrong.
(16:32:21) Churchwork: The uncaused big bang thus would have always existed.
(16:32:43) Churchwork: If that is true then mankind would not still be sinning to the extent we still do and heat death would be far greater than it is (Step 1).
(16:32:48) (m52nickerson): Again time did not exist before the big bang.
(16:32:51) Churchwork: You failed.
(16:33:13) (m52nickerson): Sin is an idea created by man. Not a real thing, just as god.
(16:33:15) Churchwork: Time can't bring itself into existence.
(16:33:26) Churchwork: If you murder someone you go to jail for your sin.
(16:33:37) (m52nickerson): No it started with the big bang.
(16:33:46) Churchwork: If you don't think it is real then you can murder without conscience.
(16:33:54) (m52nickerson): No you go to jail because you broke a law
(16:34:00) Churchwork: Time needs a cause.
(16:34:08) Churchwork: You broke the law because of your sin.
(16:34:12) (m52nickerson): Big bang
(16:34:19) Churchwork: Sin is transgression of the law.
(16:34:24) Churchwork: Big bang needs a cause.
(16:34:29) (m52nickerson): No you broke a law because you killed some one.
(16:34:42) Churchwork: You killed someone not for no reason at all.
(16:34:44) Churchwork: It's sin.
(16:34:49) (m52nickerson): Asking what caused the big bang is illogical. You must be slow.
(16:35:11) Churchwork: You must be slow. Shutting your mind down to the fact something can't come from nothing.
(16:35:16) Churchwork: Big bang can't come from nothing.
(16:35:23) Churchwork: It's something.
(16:35:29) (m52nickerson): It did that is proven
(16:35:38) Churchwork: No proof.
(16:35:51) Churchwork: Proof is trillions of causes tell us big bang needs a cause too.
(16:35:58) Churchwork: You have nothing.
(16:36:04) Churchwork: You're not too bright are you?
(16:36:16) (m52nickerson): Nothing exist before the big bang, so it could not have been caused.
(16:36:33) Churchwork: You assume nothing existed.
(16:36:42) Churchwork: If nothing existed then the big bang couldn't happen.
(16:36:56) (m52nickerson): It did so you are wrong.
(16:36:59) Churchwork: That which does not exist can't commence a big bang.
(16:37:13) Churchwork: You assume nothing existed.
(16:37:22) Churchwork: But that which does not exist can't bring about a big bang.
(16:37:29) Churchwork: That's illogical.
(16:37:54) Churchwork: I think your time is up.
(16:38:00) (m52nickerson): We know nothing existed because the universe began with the big bang and is encompasses all thing.
(16:38:25) Churchwork: Why does the big bang necessitate nothing existed before the big bang?
(16:39:18) (m52nickerson): Because that is the beginning of the universe which is the total of all thing.
(16:40:00) Churchwork: Why do you assume the universe is the total of all things?
(16:40:15) Churchwork: Why does the beginning of the universe require there be nothing before the big bang?
(16:40:23) Churchwork: Do you see your assuming?
(16:40:25) (m52nickerson): It is by definition.
(16:40:32) Churchwork: You don't seem to be able to make the connection.
(16:40:44) Churchwork: By definition you mean your assumed defintion right?
(16:41:12) Churchwork: Doesn't that go against the trillions of effects in nature that need a cause?
(16:41:36) (m52nickerson): No by the definition. You must be assuming it is something else. That is why you fail.
(16:42:03) Churchwork: I go with the evidence of trillions of causes in nature. What evidence do you have in your assumed definition?
(16:42:44) (m52nickerson): Nature is part of the universe. The universe as a whole is not limited to the laws within it self. That is why it expanded faster then the speed of light.
(16:43:56) Churchwork: Well I don't know if the universe expands faster than the speed of light. The scientists I say don't agree with you.
(16:44:21) Churchwork: The first event of the universe is in nature so it requires a cause too.
(16:44:29) Churchwork: All events in nature need a cause.
(16:44:42) (m52nickerson): Really, how is it then that light from the big bang which long burned out, is still arriving at earth?
(16:45:25) Churchwork: Because it occured many of billion light years away.
(16:45:30) Churchwork: Duh!
(16:45:41) Churchwork: You're boringly dumb.
(16:46:22) Churchwork: I think I am going to have to censor all things people that think something can come from that which does not exist or start up all by itself. That is just pure unadulterated retardation!
(16:46:39) (m52nickerson): if that was the beginning and the universe expanded at a speed of light the the light would have arrived and gone billions of years ago.
(16:46:56) (m52nickerson): Then what caused God.
(16:47:06) Churchwork: It's still moving away from us and towards us.
(16:47:23) Churchwork: We proved the uncaused.
(16:47:30) Churchwork: The nature of God is uncausd.
(16:47:35) Churchwork: Hence, the uncaused is God.
(16:47:36) (m52nickerson): Yes, we did it is the big bang.
(16:47:58) Churchwork: A is True, B is A, hence, B is True.
(16:48:22) Churchwork: What is the big bang? Uncaused?
Uncaused is in nature; all things in nature have a cauwse.
(16:48:37) Churchwork: God is not in nature but outside nature so He can be uncaused.
(16:48:53) Churchwork: I need to ban you for a month because you are an idiot.
(16:49:03) Churchwork: But I am sure you know that already.
(16:49:06) (m52nickerson): By your logic, which is flawed, something can't come from nothing, since you believe god is something he could not have come from nothing.
(16:49:29) (m52nickerson): If God could be uncasued, so could the big bang.
(16:50:11) Churchwork: Nature can't be uncaused because we would not still be sinning to the extent we still do. But God can be uncaused.
(16:50:19) (m52nickerson): In fact Occam's Razor tells us that God is an unnecessary step.
(16:50:31) (m52nickerson): Sin is a man made idea.
(16:50:41) Churchwork: It's more complicated to say the universe always existed, then you have to explain why there isn't more heat death.
(16:50:52) Churchwork: You're repeating yourself and not dealing with the response.
(16:50:52) (m52nickerson): The Big Bang was not caused.
(16:51:13) (m52nickerson): So I'm arguing like you
(16:51:13) Churchwork: Even if sin is a manmade concept we still wouldn't be sinning to the extent we still do if the big bang always existed.
(16:51:36) Churchwork: The big bang if not caused violated the exponential progression of conscience we observe and heat death.
(16:51:48) Churchwork: If God always existed He doesn't violate this law because He is not in nature.
(16:51:50) Churchwork: You lose.
(16:52:11) Churchwork: Intelligence can only create intelligence.
(16:52:15) Churchwork: Big bang is not intelligent.
(16:52:18) (m52nickerson): Again saying the big bang always existed is illogical because before it time did not exist.
(16:52:22) Churchwork: Conscience can only produce conscience.
(16:52:26) Churchwork: big bang is not conscience.
(16:52:41) Churchwork: I am glad you admit the big bang did not always exist.
(16:52:51) Churchwork: Since the big bang did not always exist then it needs a cause.
(16:53:04) (m52nickerson): That is an illogical statment.
(16:53:10) Churchwork: That which begins to exist needs a cause.
(16:53:16) Churchwork: That's logic.
(16:53:22) (m52nickerson): You must be a flamming moron.
(16:53:25) Churchwork: Trillions of causes of evidence.
(16:53:28) Churchwork: You have no evidence.
(16:53:33) Churchwork: You must be going to Hell.
(16:53:48) Churchwork: It's not that you are a moron even though you are, but that you are a bad guy going to Hell.
(16:54:00) Churchwork: You eternally separte yourself from God so you shut your mind down to trillions of causes of evidence.
(16:54:06) (m52nickerson): The existence of the universe is evidence.
(16:54:07) Churchwork: Compare that to your non-evidence.
(16:54:20) (m52nickerson): Hold on on second.
(16:54:21) Churchwork: The existence of the universe needs an explanation.
(16:54:42) Churchwork: God said the universe is the evidence.
(16:54:47) Churchwork: I agree.
(16:55:06) Churchwork: The universe thus needs an explanation because it began to exist.
(16:56:34) Churchwork: It's time to ban you.
(16:57:01) Churchwork: Unless you can overturn the evidence of trillions of causes to your non-caused big bang, realize you are not going with the evidence.
(16:57:08) (m52nickerson): See this is why we should talk about something else. We are not going to convince each other. You refuse to see how logic works. Lets talk about health care. ......or I can just go back to FSTDT and post this conversation and we can laugh at your illogic. What is it going to be. You next responce will dictate my actions.
(16:57:30) Churchwork: How is it logical to think something starts up all by itself?
(16:57:49) Churchwork: Shutting your mind down as you suggest is not the answer.
(16:58:00) Churchwork: The answer is to realize you are being illogical which sends you to Hell.
(16:58:00) (m52nickerson): Politics or I post on FSTDT, which one I will not ask again.
(16:58:17) Churchwork: Actually what makes you illogical, willingly so, is your hostility to your Creator.
(16:58:36) Churchwork: Address that something can't come from nothing in nature.
(16:58:46) Churchwork: Address the fact something can't start up all by itself.
(16:58:52) Churchwork: Waiting.
(16:59:05) (m52nickerson): Going to post since you are boring and just repeat the same tired false hoods again and again. BYE
He is so stupid that he can only talk about his failed proof.
Here is my latest chat.
(16:08:07) Churchwork: Hey.
(16:08:37) (m52nickerson): Hello again church....do you follow politics?
(16:08:39) Churchwork: I just wrote this. Calvinists are unsaved. biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?3543-Why-is-Totally-Depravity-Wrong-(This-is-Deep)&p=7003#post7003
(16:08:52) Churchwork: A little.
(16:09:18) (m52nickerson): What is your take on the Health Care Bill moving through the senate.
(16:09:51) Churchwork: Why are you asking me this? Let's talk about the fact you are not born-again and thus, will go to Hell.
(16:10:03) Churchwork: Nothing is more important that your salvation.
(16:11:01) (m52nickerson): We have talked about that before. You failed to convince me......and I really don't care. I'm more interested in talking about health care right now.
(16:11:45) Churchwork: How come you can't convince me to disprove the proof?
(16:11:52) (m52nickerson): Look at it this way, if someone else comes by to talk about salvation you can go with them. Until then we can chat about other things.
(16:12:27) Churchwork: Shutting your mind down to the data is disingenuous isn't it?
(16:12:42) Churchwork: If the universe can't come from nothing and can't always have existed what other choice is there than the uncreated must exist?
(16:12:47) Churchwork: Isn't that logical?
(16:14:12) Churchwork: I'm just trying to show you that you are not being honest with yourself.
(16:14:23) Churchwork: And it is that dishonesty with self that separates you from reality.
(16:14:39) (m52nickerson): That is logical. The problem is that the uncaused can be beginning of space-time.
(16:14:53) Churchwork: No.
(16:15:02) (m52nickerson): Why
(16:15:10) Churchwork: The beginning of space time needs a cause. Like I said, it can't start from nothing.
(16:15:29) Churchwork: It began, it has an explanation.
(16:15:39) Churchwork: Something can't come from that which does not exist.
(16:15:48) Churchwork: So the cause is uncaused.
(16:15:53) (m52nickerson): No that is illogical. Before the beginning to space-time there was nothing, so there was no cause.
(16:15:55) Churchwork: As strange as that may seem we give into it.
(16:16:12) Churchwork: If there was no cause before space time then the universe wouldn't exist.
(16:16:27) Churchwork: Yet it does exist, so we know the bringer of the universe is Himself uncaused.
(16:17:45) (m52nickerson): Well we know the Universe exists, and we know it has not always. Since the universe encompasses everything, nothing could exist before it.
(16:18:25) Churchwork: If it didn't always exist then it has an explanation.
(16:18:43) Churchwork: So your mistaken assumptin is: universe encompasses everything.
(16:18:50) Churchwork: Obviously it doesn't encompass the explanation.
(16:19:02) (m52nickerson): Yes. The main explanation is the big bang theory.
(16:19:17) Churchwork: The explanation is what caused the big bang.
(16:19:53) Churchwork: The explanation is uncaused.
(16:19:55) (m52nickerson): Nothing, again before the big bang there was nothing so what caused it is an illogical question.
(16:20:19) Churchwork: "Nothing" can't produce something.
(16:20:37) Churchwork: So to say it came from nothing is illogical.
(16:21:01) (m52nickerson): Correct nothing can't produce anything. The big bang produced the universe.
(16:21:24) Churchwork: Christians believe the big bang produced the universe. That's not in question.
(16:21:36) Churchwork: What caused the big bang necessarily must be uncaused.
(16:21:36) (m52nickerson): Ok
(16:22:12) Churchwork: The uncaused was always existing, uncreated, intelligent, personal, transcendant, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.
(16:22:20) Churchwork: Immanent.
(16:22:28) (m52nickerson): There was nothing before the big bang, so it must be uncaused. To ask what caused it is an illogical question.
(16:22:56) Churchwork: If the universe was uncaused then it must have always been existing right?
(16:23:29) (m52nickerson): No. The universe was created in the big bang, which was uncaused.
(16:23:29) Churchwork: Since it can't begin to exist from nothing.
(16:23:57) Churchwork: That which begins to exist needs an explanation.
(16:24:21) (m52nickerson): The explanation is the big bang.
(16:24:28) Churchwork: The big bang began to exist.
(16:24:35) Churchwork: It needs an explanation.
(16:24:51) Churchwork: Do you see how you shut your mind down like a zombie for Satan and don't ask what caused it?
(16:24:55) (m52nickerson): The big bang was an uncaused event.
(16:25:15) Churchwork: Something that begins to happen needs an explanation. The big bang began to exist.
(16:25:36) Churchwork: Hence, the big bang was caused.
(16:25:50) Churchwork: If the big bang always existed for eternity
that would be silling wouldn't it?
(16:26:12) (m52nickerson): Nothing existed before the big bang, the big bang happened, therefore it was uncased.
(16:26:30) (m52nickerson): Time did not exist before the
big bang.
(16:26:33) Churchwork: The big bang happened, therefore it has a cause.
(16:26:40) Churchwork: All things that begin to happen have a cause.
(16:26:49) (m52nickerson): Only in you mind.
(16:26:52) Churchwork: That is what the evidence tells us of trillions of causes in nature.
(16:27:02) Churchwork: Evidence wins out over your non-evidence.
(16:27:33) Churchwork: Time can't start up all by itself, nor can the big bang.
(16:27:47) Churchwork: That's goofy. Right?
(16:28:01) (m52nickerson): Trillions of causes are irrelevant since we know nothing existed before the big bang so it could have no cause.
(16:28:30) Churchwork: If nothing existed b efore the big bang then the universe wouldn't exist since something can't come from nothing or start up all by itself.
(16:28:48) Churchwork: Trillions of causes say so.
(16:28:50) (m52nickerson): But it did so you are wrong.
(16:29:10) Churchwork: Evidence says otherwise, with trillions of causes.
(16:29:28) Churchwork: It's like you are playing a lottery with odds against you more than a trillion to 1.
(16:29:34) Churchwork: You surely lose.
(16:29:44) (m52nickerson): Again irrelevant.
(16:29:49) Churchwork: Vital.
(16:29:57) Churchwork: God said He proves Himself by observing nature.
(16:29:59) Churchwork: Key.
(16:30:52) Churchwork: We are past Step 1 of the proof because you admit the universe didn't always exist.
(16:30:56) (m52nickerson): The by your logic everything needs a cause, what caused God........and don't say that is illogical because it is just as illogical as asking what caused the big bang.
(16:31:02) Churchwork: Step 2 says something can't come from nothing or start up all by itself.
(16:31:26) Churchwork: By the logic everything in nature needs a cause, thus pointing to the uncaused which is God.
(16:31:27) (m52nickerson): Step two is in error, I have shown that.
(16:31:47) Churchwork: We observe nature needs causes, so we are left with only one viable option the uncaused is the cause.
(16:31:55) Churchwork: The Uncaused Cause - God!
(16:31:59) (m52nickerson): No the uncasued is the big bang. Since nothing existed before.
(16:32:05) Churchwork: Step 2 you couldn't challenge.
(16:32:19) (m52nickerson): I did and proved it wrong.
(16:32:21) Churchwork: The uncaused big bang thus would have always existed.
(16:32:43) Churchwork: If that is true then mankind would not still be sinning to the extent we still do and heat death would be far greater than it is (Step 1).
(16:32:48) (m52nickerson): Again time did not exist before the big bang.
(16:32:51) Churchwork: You failed.
(16:33:13) (m52nickerson): Sin is an idea created by man. Not a real thing, just as god.
(16:33:15) Churchwork: Time can't bring itself into existence.
(16:33:26) Churchwork: If you murder someone you go to jail for your sin.
(16:33:37) (m52nickerson): No it started with the big bang.
(16:33:46) Churchwork: If you don't think it is real then you can murder without conscience.
(16:33:54) (m52nickerson): No you go to jail because you broke a law
(16:34:00) Churchwork: Time needs a cause.
(16:34:08) Churchwork: You broke the law because of your sin.
(16:34:12) (m52nickerson): Big bang
(16:34:19) Churchwork: Sin is transgression of the law.
(16:34:24) Churchwork: Big bang needs a cause.
(16:34:29) (m52nickerson): No you broke a law because you killed some one.
(16:34:42) Churchwork: You killed someone not for no reason at all.
(16:34:44) Churchwork: It's sin.
(16:34:49) (m52nickerson): Asking what caused the big bang is illogical. You must be slow.
(16:35:11) Churchwork: You must be slow. Shutting your mind down to the fact something can't come from nothing.
(16:35:16) Churchwork: Big bang can't come from nothing.
(16:35:23) Churchwork: It's something.
(16:35:29) (m52nickerson): It did that is proven
(16:35:38) Churchwork: No proof.
(16:35:51) Churchwork: Proof is trillions of causes tell us big bang needs a cause too.
(16:35:58) Churchwork: You have nothing.
(16:36:04) Churchwork: You're not too bright are you?
(16:36:16) (m52nickerson): Nothing exist before the big bang, so it could not have been caused.
(16:36:33) Churchwork: You assume nothing existed.
(16:36:42) Churchwork: If nothing existed then the big bang couldn't happen.
(16:36:56) (m52nickerson): It did so you are wrong.
(16:36:59) Churchwork: That which does not exist can't commence a big bang.
(16:37:13) Churchwork: You assume nothing existed.
(16:37:22) Churchwork: But that which does not exist can't bring about a big bang.
(16:37:29) Churchwork: That's illogical.
(16:37:54) Churchwork: I think your time is up.
(16:38:00) (m52nickerson): We know nothing existed because the universe began with the big bang and is encompasses all thing.
(16:38:25) Churchwork: Why does the big bang necessitate nothing existed before the big bang?
(16:39:18) (m52nickerson): Because that is the beginning of the universe which is the total of all thing.
(16:40:00) Churchwork: Why do you assume the universe is the total of all things?
(16:40:15) Churchwork: Why does the beginning of the universe require there be nothing before the big bang?
(16:40:23) Churchwork: Do you see your assuming?
(16:40:25) (m52nickerson): It is by definition.
(16:40:32) Churchwork: You don't seem to be able to make the connection.
(16:40:44) Churchwork: By definition you mean your assumed defintion right?
(16:41:12) Churchwork: Doesn't that go against the trillions of effects in nature that need a cause?
(16:41:36) (m52nickerson): No by the definition. You must be assuming it is something else. That is why you fail.
(16:42:03) Churchwork: I go with the evidence of trillions of causes in nature. What evidence do you have in your assumed definition?
(16:42:44) (m52nickerson): Nature is part of the universe. The universe as a whole is not limited to the laws within it self. That is why it expanded faster then the speed of light.
(16:43:56) Churchwork: Well I don't know if the universe expands faster than the speed of light. The scientists I say don't agree with you.
(16:44:21) Churchwork: The first event of the universe is in nature so it requires a cause too.
(16:44:29) Churchwork: All events in nature need a cause.
(16:44:42) (m52nickerson): Really, how is it then that light from the big bang which long burned out, is still arriving at earth?
(16:45:25) Churchwork: Because it occured many of billion light years away.
(16:45:30) Churchwork: Duh!
(16:45:41) Churchwork: You're boringly dumb.
(16:46:22) Churchwork: I think I am going to have to censor all things people that think something can come from that which does not exist or start up all by itself. That is just pure unadulterated retardation!
(16:46:39) (m52nickerson): if that was the beginning and the universe expanded at a speed of light the the light would have arrived and gone billions of years ago.
(16:46:56) (m52nickerson): Then what caused God.
(16:47:06) Churchwork: It's still moving away from us and towards us.
(16:47:23) Churchwork: We proved the uncaused.
(16:47:30) Churchwork: The nature of God is uncausd.
(16:47:35) Churchwork: Hence, the uncaused is God.
(16:47:36) (m52nickerson): Yes, we did it is the big bang.
(16:47:58) Churchwork: A is True, B is A, hence, B is True.
(16:48:22) Churchwork: What is the big bang? Uncaused?
Uncaused is in nature; all things in nature have a cauwse.
(16:48:37) Churchwork: God is not in nature but outside nature so He can be uncaused.
(16:48:53) Churchwork: I need to ban you for a month because you are an idiot.
(16:49:03) Churchwork: But I am sure you know that already.
(16:49:06) (m52nickerson): By your logic, which is flawed, something can't come from nothing, since you believe god is something he could not have come from nothing.
(16:49:29) (m52nickerson): If God could be uncasued, so could the big bang.
(16:50:11) Churchwork: Nature can't be uncaused because we would not still be sinning to the extent we still do. But God can be uncaused.
(16:50:19) (m52nickerson): In fact Occam's Razor tells us that God is an unnecessary step.
(16:50:31) (m52nickerson): Sin is a man made idea.
(16:50:41) Churchwork: It's more complicated to say the universe always existed, then you have to explain why there isn't more heat death.
(16:50:52) Churchwork: You're repeating yourself and not dealing with the response.
(16:50:52) (m52nickerson): The Big Bang was not caused.
(16:51:13) (m52nickerson): So I'm arguing like you
(16:51:13) Churchwork: Even if sin is a manmade concept we still wouldn't be sinning to the extent we still do if the big bang always existed.
(16:51:36) Churchwork: The big bang if not caused violated the exponential progression of conscience we observe and heat death.
(16:51:48) Churchwork: If God always existed He doesn't violate this law because He is not in nature.
(16:51:50) Churchwork: You lose.
(16:52:11) Churchwork: Intelligence can only create intelligence.
(16:52:15) Churchwork: Big bang is not intelligent.
(16:52:18) (m52nickerson): Again saying the big bang always existed is illogical because before it time did not exist.
(16:52:22) Churchwork: Conscience can only produce conscience.
(16:52:26) Churchwork: big bang is not conscience.
(16:52:41) Churchwork: I am glad you admit the big bang did not always exist.
(16:52:51) Churchwork: Since the big bang did not always exist then it needs a cause.
(16:53:04) (m52nickerson): That is an illogical statment.
(16:53:10) Churchwork: That which begins to exist needs a cause.
(16:53:16) Churchwork: That's logic.
(16:53:22) (m52nickerson): You must be a flamming moron.
(16:53:25) Churchwork: Trillions of causes of evidence.
(16:53:28) Churchwork: You have no evidence.
(16:53:33) Churchwork: You must be going to Hell.
(16:53:48) Churchwork: It's not that you are a moron even though you are, but that you are a bad guy going to Hell.
(16:54:00) Churchwork: You eternally separte yourself from God so you shut your mind down to trillions of causes of evidence.
(16:54:06) (m52nickerson): The existence of the universe is evidence.
(16:54:07) Churchwork: Compare that to your non-evidence.
(16:54:20) (m52nickerson): Hold on on second.
(16:54:21) Churchwork: The existence of the universe needs an explanation.
(16:54:42) Churchwork: God said the universe is the evidence.
(16:54:47) Churchwork: I agree.
(16:55:06) Churchwork: The universe thus needs an explanation because it began to exist.
(16:56:34) Churchwork: It's time to ban you.
(16:57:01) Churchwork: Unless you can overturn the evidence of trillions of causes to your non-caused big bang, realize you are not going with the evidence.
(16:57:08) (m52nickerson): See this is why we should talk about something else. We are not going to convince each other. You refuse to see how logic works. Lets talk about health care. ......or I can just go back to FSTDT and post this conversation and we can laugh at your illogic. What is it going to be. You next responce will dictate my actions.
(16:57:30) Churchwork: How is it logical to think something starts up all by itself?
(16:57:49) Churchwork: Shutting your mind down as you suggest is not the answer.
(16:58:00) Churchwork: The answer is to realize you are being illogical which sends you to Hell.
(16:58:00) (m52nickerson): Politics or I post on FSTDT, which one I will not ask again.
(16:58:17) Churchwork: Actually what makes you illogical, willingly so, is your hostility to your Creator.
(16:58:36) Churchwork: Address that something can't come from nothing in nature.
(16:58:46) Churchwork: Address the fact something can't start up all by itself.
(16:58:52) Churchwork: Waiting.
(16:59:05) (m52nickerson): Going to post since you are boring and just repeat the same tired false hoods again and again. BYE