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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 7, 2011 3:32:44 GMT -5
Every other site I go to, they talk about what a joy their children are and how they can't imagine life without them. On this site, everyone talks about how expensive kids are and how much trouble they are. I know both are true, but damn. Anyone here have kids and not regret it? For the longest time I wanted kids. But then I realized that I am not a good caretaker at all and would not be a good parent as such. Not to mention that my genes are best not inflicted on any living creature. Hey, there's a few proud parents on this website, somewhere. So, yeah, they exist here. It's just that we tend to be a social misift magnet, for better or worse. |
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Post by kmc on May 7, 2011 5:02:06 GMT -5
Every other site I go to, they talk about what a joy their children are and how they can't imagine life without them. On this site, everyone talks about how expensive kids are and how much trouble they are. I know both are true, but damn. Anyone here have kids and not regret it? Ummmm, me?  |
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Post by itsaname on May 7, 2011 11:08:11 GMT -5
Back when I was 13 I was a step-dad for a bit over a year, not sure if that counts but I never regretted anything I gave up helping out.
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Post by lighthorseman on May 7, 2011 12:01:45 GMT -5
Seems to me that there would be a strong possibility of jealousy and favoritism is such an environment, which could be very bad for the children. That's not to say it couldn't be done without those things, but it's something to consider before entering into a polyamorous relationship, and certainly before bringing children into it. The question of jealousy is interesting... is it inherent in humans, or is it purely a social construct? There is a body of evidence that suggests people who are not brought up in a monogomous culture don't experience nor express jealousy in relationships the way most of us would imagine. |
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Post by lighthorseman on May 7, 2011 12:04:58 GMT -5
Every other site I go to, they talk about what a joy their children are and how they can't imagine life without them. On this site, everyone talks about how expensive kids are and how much trouble they are. I know both are true, but damn. Anyone here have kids and not regret it? Ummmm, me? seconded. |
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Post by katz on May 7, 2011 22:24:37 GMT -5
Honestly, I think it would just involve the same problems as monogamous relationships, just sometimes more of them. The added money comes with one more person to pay for (student loans, car payments, food...), the extra caregiving time comes with an increased chance of divorce within the unit (simply by adding another actor to chose it), etc.
All families are a little dysfunctional, and we're seeing that with the new studies and media around same-sex parents. Doesn't matter what gender or number of parents you have, it always seems to come down to the parent as an individual.
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Post by MaybeNever on May 7, 2011 23:17:23 GMT -5
Back when I was 13 I was a step-dad for a bit over a year, not sure if that counts but I never regretted anything I gave up helping out. Is... is it even legal to be married at 13? Do you come from the South by chance? |
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Post by wmdkitty on May 8, 2011 1:37:18 GMT -5
Back when I was 13 I was a step-dad for a bit over a year, not sure if that counts but I never regretted anything I gave up helping out. Is... is it even legal to be married at 13? Do you come from the South by chance? Careful, you don't want the Southerners here to get upset at you... |
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Post by ironbite on May 8, 2011 1:39:23 GMT -5
Or anyone with a lick of common fucking sense.
Ironbite-oh btw....southerner right here.
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Post by sylvana on May 9, 2011 6:27:15 GMT -5
Sylvana, if we go by how you're presenting the economics, then no two parent household, and definitely no single parent household, could ever hope to have have kids and not rapidly spiral into debt. I work in debt collection and see it pretty much all the time. Trust me, most families really are spiraling into bad debt, this is especially visible in poorer communities. Let's use an example of two couples living together, as that does happen frequently, who are in a polyamorous relationship, now only have one bill for rent/mortgage. While they will have a higher rent or mortgage than if they were on their own, that increase doesn't approach the amount that doubling it does (as both couples in this case would have to pay rent/mortgage on their own). This works for other bills as well (phone, internet, cable, electric, garbage/disposal/recycling, gas, etc.), making it so that their overall expenses are quite a bit less than if they weren't together. I will have to concede this point. The larger family expenses will be lower, things like paying for a house, insurance and basic services would be dramatically less with more people under one roof than if everyone was living individually. A 2 male, 1 female couple has a much lower chance of having 1.25 kids per adult (as that's the expected amount you get from 2.5 kids per 2 adults), as only one can actually become pregnant. While there is only one adult who can become pregnant this in no way limits this one woman to only 2.5 kids. Male A wants 2 chilldren so his children can be siblings. Male B wants 2 children for the same reason. Having more than one child with ones partner is is a common desire in many adults. (some want many more, other want just one, hence the 2.5)Now in the case of a paring with a bisexual, and homosexual and a heterosexual, you would get the standard 2.5 children ebcause the one pair would be unable to conceive. As for the number of kids spiralling out of control, well, not only is there birth control, a lot of the couplings going on are same sex. Two women can't make a baby, and two men can't make one either. Even if they don't use birth control and have the number of "expected" kids per male-female couple, or even more, the fact that their other expenses are drastically reduced means they are able to support a much larger number of children should they choose to have them. A lot of the couplings are going to be same sex? How do you come to that conclusion. Remember we are not talking about polygamous relationships in the current society we are looking at them becoming widespread and the norm, replacing the nuclear family concept. Homosexuals make up at most 10% of the population. This means that 90% of the polygamous relationships will be heterosexual. Now while I will agree that with the bigger expenses shared there is the potential to help afford more children, this is a good thing. However, birth control, I will tell you right now that in the poorer communities where affording the kids they have is difficult, they are always eager to pop out another one. In our current society, affluent educated people generally have less than 2 children. There has even been a correlation between level of education and number of children. The lower the level the more children someone will generally have. Add to the fact that with more children fiances become tighter and affording education becomes more difficult. The problem of poorer families from have disproportionally larger numbers of children feeds upon itself as the more children inevitably leads to those children receiving a poorer education. Populations are already spiraling out of control this just has the potential to make it worse. (just like that good for nothing dad that knocked up something crazy like 17 different women, not to mention my countries president that has something like 20 something children of his own.) I disagree with that. Families where both parents work don't always have both parents work full time. It very often involves one or both sacrificing part of their working hours to raise the children. If you split that between more people, you could have a matching amount of work time spread among full time employed caretakers and have the same amount as if everybody was part time. If four people work 30 hours a week, or three people work 40 hours a week and one stays at home, it's financially the same thing (well not if the one leaving the job is the one who had the lowest wage) I'd prefer the first formula (everyone cut their hours a bit and try to work their schedule around the week) over one staying at home for other reasons than money, but in a strictly financial sense, it works out. You have a reasonable point. Although I wonder about the possibility of flexible hours. I know that a number of low wage jobs offer quite flexible working periods and would greatly assist the family in not only caring for the children but also gathering and income. Most of the higher income jobs I know of though, are pretty strict on their policy though. Of course if the polygamous family does become the norm I can see the more strict work environment becoming more flexible as well to assist as it would be affecting essentially their entire workforce. That is, unless capitalism does not just give them a royal F-U. |
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Post by Vene on May 9, 2011 10:05:50 GMT -5
I work in debt collection and see it pretty much all the time. Trust me, most families really are spiraling into bad debt, this is especially visible in poorer communities. Which is not exclusive to poly, therefore irrelevant. But, since expenses are shared, the overall cost of lower kids is lower. Even if there would be twice as many kids in a 3 adult unit than a 2 adult unit, that doesn't mean expenses are twice as much. This is even assuming that your assumption people would want the same number of kids in a poly family is true (you need to cite something as evidence). You can't just assume poly families will act the same as mono families, it is an entirely different structure. There's also the aspect that this is not relevant either. A family's expenses are not your gorram concern. The fuck does this have to do with poly? This is applicable to all family structures. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 9, 2011 13:27:23 GMT -5
Minor correction: Gay men and women are not infertile. We're quite capable of producing children. The difference is that we're not inclined towards the opposite gender, meaning that having children as a byproduct of love-making would be impossible. That being said, a gay man in a poly relationship could conceivably desire children. And really, all it'd take is a turkey baster |
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Post by Oriet on May 9, 2011 17:06:30 GMT -5
Remember we are not talking about polygamous relationships in the current society we are looking at them becoming widespread and the norm, replacing the nuclear family concept. I do not see how it will ever be the case that polyamorous relationships will outnumber monogamous relationships. If you can show me a society, either current or historical, where such has happened then I will look at is as a possible scenario. Until such point I will go with the assumption that monogamy will be in the majority (in part due to jealousy and exclusivity). Actually, this is not true. San Francisco has a LGB population of at least 15.4%. In Minneapolis one in eight people (12.5%) is LGB. 10% then is hardly some sort of upper limit. |
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Post by Runa on May 9, 2011 18:53:39 GMT -5
Remember we are not talking about polygamous relationships in the current society we are looking at them becoming widespread and the norm, replacing the nuclear family concept. I do not see how it will ever be the case that polyamorous relationships will outnumber monogamous relationships. If you can show me a society, either current or historical, where such has happened then I will look at is as a possible scenario. Until such point I will go with the assumption that monogamy will be in the majority (in part due to jealousy and exclusivity). Actually, this is not true. San Francisco has a LGB population of at least 15.4%. In Minneapolis one in eight people (12.5%) is LGB. 10% then is hardly some sort of upper limit. Aren't San Fran and Minneapolis pretty tolerant places with vibrant LBGTIQ communities, thereby encouraging those in that community to migrate there? |
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Post by itsaname on May 9, 2011 19:25:58 GMT -5
Back when I was 13 I was a step-dad for a bit over a year, not sure if that counts but I never regretted anything I gave up helping out. Is... is it even legal to be married at 13? Do you come from the South by chance? No, but I raised the kid and the girl and me were basically married as far as it mattered to anyone. Also, if it's 'the south' in Missouri then yes. By the way, I was one of the best parents that anyone in the town ever had... until the accident... so don't think I was some kid that had no idea what I was doing. |
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