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Post by canadian mojo on May 24, 2011 11:42:20 GMT -5
People make stupid, life altering decisions all the time. As adults it is their right to do so. End of story. (Not that I'm calling anyone who doesn't want kids stupid, but even if I thought it was I wouldn't stop you from doing it)
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on May 24, 2011 12:38:20 GMT -5
People make stupid, life altering decisions all the time. As adults it is their right to do so. End of story. (Not that I'm calling anyone who doesn't want kids stupid, but even if I thought it was I wouldn't stop you from doing it) THANK YOU. I'm free to fuck my lungs up with cigarettes, to become a drunk and ruin my liver, to get myself shot to death, but god forbid I get rid of an unnecessary organ/tie off the exits to unnecessary organs, even if I've given it a lot of thought and am firmly convinced it's the best option. But hey, I've never even fucked, so what does it matter right. ETA: AND ANOTHER THING about "you might change your mind": yeah, I'm totally gonna change my mind about bloating to resemble a whale even more than I do now, constantly having to pee, having asthma attacks due to a fucking fetus squished up against my diaphragm. Yeah, in 5 years, that'll sound like SO MUCH FUN. I love babies, don't get me wrong. Well...until they start spitting up/pooping/pissing. I love looking at them, cuddling them, getting those ooey-gooey feelings. But guess what? That is NOT enough for me to justify bringing a child into my life. There's much more to consider before I even THINK of adopting, getting a surrogate, popping one out myself, whatever. I can barely take care of myself, and I am NOT marrying ANYONE until I get my doctoral degree, which is looking to be about 2018. But hey, gooey baby feelings is the ONLY reason you need for having a baby, right?! That's totally RESPONSIBLE! |
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Post by erictheblue on May 24, 2011 13:00:22 GMT -5
Keeping options open is always the best idea. If you dont want kids now, dont have kids. if you dont want kids in 5 years, dont have kids then either. However in 10 years you might want to have children. if you dont, well guess what, dont have kids once again. If you have an operation that completely removes any chance of having your own children then in the rare event that you want children in the future you cannot have them. So basically despite your feelings now, you would have completely screwed yourself over if those feelings ever change. The smart thing is to keep as many possible options open. This gives you the maximum number of choices in your life and also allows you to be far more flexible with your own future and the possible paths it might take. No form of birth control is 100% effective. You just told committed, heterosexual couples that they HAVE to take extra precautions - for years - because maybe, possibly, someday in some future, they will want to have kids. And even then, those extra precautions can fail. With Republicans taking extreme steps to make abortion almost-impossible, one failure can force people who do not want a child to carry the parasite to term and then try to adopt it out. (Or worse, give in to societies pressure and keep the kid.) As others have said, why is it acceptable for a 16 year old to get pregnant accidentally and keep the kid, but not acceptable for a 26 year old to make a conscious decision to ensure they never have a child? Both are making permanent decisions that will affect their lives. |
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on May 24, 2011 14:09:32 GMT -5
As I said, the reason doctors are very hesitant to do it before someone has made a few kids is CYA policy. They don't want some asshole suing them five years down the road because now they want a crotch goblin.
I understand why they feel that way, though I still don't agree with it. Then again, a lot of the time the "own damn fault" clause doesn't get put to full use when it really should be. Fucking litigious assholes.
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Post by Vene on May 24, 2011 14:36:02 GMT -5
Alternative thought, you should put off having kids in case you decide you don't actually want them in the future.
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Post by MiriamM on May 24, 2011 15:01:57 GMT -5
seems like doctors don't think a woman who hasn't already had several kids will really know what she wants until she's nearly 35-40 years old. But see, the problem with this is that it implies that we childfree people (women especially) don't know our own minds. 'Silly girl, you don't know what you want!' I was looking for numbers, and found this: The concept of “regret” after sterilization has been a difficult one to study—in part because it is a difficult one to measure. Rates of regret after sterilization that range from 0.9–26% have been reported with use of various measures. Regret at 10 or more years after tubal sterilization has been reported in from 5% to 21% of women. Most studies have reported increased rates of regret among women undergoing sterilization at young ages. Sterilization. (full text not freely available) Of course, that doesn't change the fact that adult people should have the right to make their own mistakes. I just think that sterilization at a young age is a mistake, and any doctor with a professional ethic should screen for people at high risk of regretting the operation, before agreeing to perform it... Do no harm and so on. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 24, 2011 15:29:19 GMT -5
What I don't get is...
If you end up wanting children in the future after sterilization, why not just adopt?
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Post by Shane for Wax on May 24, 2011 15:39:13 GMT -5
What I don't get is... If you end up wanting children in the future after sterilization, why not just adopt? Because apparently it's better for you to make even more children instead of giving a loving home to children that were unable to be cared for by their birth parents. |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on May 24, 2011 15:43:46 GMT -5
I can understand some people not wanting to adopt - there are a lot of problems with medical history and trying to find birth parents when the kid grows up and stuff like that. STILL. Not only is tube tying reversible, it is also not 100% perfect, AND adults are adults and can choose for themselves what they do. I am sure people regret their years of smoking or drinking, but there are no laws preventing an adult from engaging in those activities (with the exception of where they do it, or what they decide to do after they do it).
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Post by Aqualung on May 24, 2011 16:26:25 GMT -5
seems like doctors don't think a woman who hasn't already had several kids will really know what she wants until she's nearly 35-40 years old. But see, the problem with this is that it implies that we childfree people (women especially) don't know our own minds. 'Silly girl, you don't know what you want!' I was looking for numbers, and found this: The concept of “regret” after sterilization has been a difficult one to study—in part because it is a difficult one to measure. Rates of regret after sterilization that range from 0.9–26% have been reported with use of various measures. Regret at 10 or more years after tubal sterilization has been reported in from 5% to 21% of women. Most studies have reported increased rates of regret among women undergoing sterilization at young ages. Sterilization. (full text not freely available) Of course, that doesn't change the fact that adult people should have the right to make their own mistakes. I just think that sterilization at a young age is a mistake, and any doctor with a professional ethic should screen for people at high risk of regretting the operation, before agreeing to perform it... Do no harm and so on. Those are pretty wide margin of error. And I'm pretty sure we all know WHAT sterilization is and entails. I'm curious to know, what age range do they consider "young"? Because I've heard of childfree people into their 30s and 40s being told they're "too young" to be sterilized. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on May 24, 2011 20:20:38 GMT -5
Alternative thought, you should put off having kids in case you decide you don't actually want them in the future.  Can I kiss you? miriam: I'm more than willing to sign away any right to sue any doctor in the (incredibly unlikely) event that I decide I want to get pregnant 'naturally'. I'm not willing to sign away any responsibility for the doctor to keep me alive during the surgery, but that should be obvious. I don't see how voluntary sterilization = the doctor "harming" someone. |
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Post by Vene on May 24, 2011 21:06:40 GMT -5
I don't see how voluntary sterilization = the doctor "harming" someone. It's cutting into healthy tissue which always carries risks. If the doctor's value system doesn't allow sterilization to be a benefit, then the surgery's harm is greater than the good it causes. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on May 24, 2011 21:13:15 GMT -5
I don't see how voluntary sterilization = the doctor "harming" someone. It's cutting into healthy tissue which always carries risks. If the doctor's value system doesn't allow sterilization to be a benefit, then the surgery's harm is greater than the good it causes. ...why is it that, when I see the term "value system" when discussing health professionals anymore, I want to cry? Maybe I just don't understand doctors. I don't get how a doctor can believe one unnecessary surgery is fine to do, but another isn't...and some of that shit is fucking dangerous, too. |
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on May 24, 2011 21:33:35 GMT -5
Alternative thought, you should put off having kids in case you decide you don't actually want them in the future. Can I kiss you? miriam: I'm more than willing to sign away any right to sue any doctor in the (incredibly unlikely) event that I decide I want to get pregnant 'naturally'. I'm not willing to sign away any responsibility for the doctor to keep me alive during the surgery, but that should be obvious. I don't see how voluntary sterilization = the doctor "harming" someone. A lot of people sue even after signing such things, supposedly. It's fucking stupid, really. |
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Post by wmdkitty on May 24, 2011 23:38:56 GMT -5
I don't see how voluntary sterilization = the doctor "harming" someone. It's cutting into healthy tissue which always carries risks. If the doctor's value system doesn't allow sterilization to be a benefit, then the surgery's harm is greater than the good it causes. And yet we allow people to have useless holes poked in their bodies for decoration...? I don't care what the doctor's "value system" is, I want to know that my doctor will do what is best FOR ME, regardless of how s/he may feel about it. |
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Can I kiss you?