|
Post by spaniel on Oct 13, 2009 16:49:19 GMT -5
Not to mention the fact that Japan has one of the highest teen suicide rates in the world.
|
|
|
Post by ltfred on Oct 13, 2009 19:28:09 GMT -5
Russia has a much higher suicide rate than Japan, in fact the third highest in the world (Belorussia is neck and neck, but Lithuania leaves all takers far in it's wake). How come nobody talks about their 'culture'. In 1983, Hungary had the highest rate of suicide ever recorded, and they're still in the top 10- yet again, ignored. Nobody talks about the huge jump in suicide in New Zealand after the failed experiment there. And men are, overwhelmingly, the people that kill themselves. Yet no discussion of the partiarchal suicide culture.
Just Japan.
|
|
|
Post by skyfire on Oct 13, 2009 20:15:21 GMT -5
Russia has a much higher suicide rate than Japan, in fact the third highest in the world (Belorussia is neck and neck, but Lithuania leaves all takers far in it's wake). How come nobody talks about their 'culture'. In 1983, Hungary had the highest rate of suicide ever recorded, and they're still in the top 10- yet again, ignored. Nobody talks about the huge jump in suicide in New Zealand after the failed experiment there. And men are, overwhelmingly, the people that kill themselves. Yet no discussion of the partiarchal suicide culture. Just Japan. Go back to the original thread. For a period of 15 to 20 years, Japan so wowed many different Western groups and organizations that everyone was scrambling to figure out what made the Japanese so successful and find ways to duplicate whatever it was. When people started to probe deeper into the Japanese methods of doing things, it finally dawned on everyone that the high rate of success Japan had came at a horrific cost. This became even more apparent when Japan's economy collapsed during the mid-1990s and the government completely fucked up the recovery efforts. As a result of this, Japan's faults are now under a microscope. Many of the same people who were eagerly lauding its achievements ended up going "What the fuck?!" when they scratched the surface. That Japanese pop culture - which is enmeshed in the failings of Japanese society - has become so ingrained in Western media is only making even more people aware of how screwed up things can get at times.
|
|
|
Post by dasfuchs on Oct 13, 2009 22:07:40 GMT -5
Yes, more Japan bad, everyone else good...
so Sky, you seem to know all Japan's secrets, have they managed to tame Godzilla and use him for war?
|
|
|
Post by Jodie on Oct 14, 2009 0:28:18 GMT -5
Suicide is great population control for countries with more people than the infrastructure can support. A system almost as good as homosexuality!
|
|
|
Post by Yaezakura on Oct 14, 2009 2:48:22 GMT -5
Just in case anyone was hoping for me to say something here, I'm not really going to participate. Just going to say I love my culture, and that suicide is simply the last refuge of the weak-minded no matter what country you come from.
|
|
|
Post by Redhunter on Oct 14, 2009 5:03:34 GMT -5
Just in case anyone was hoping for me to say something here, I'm not really going to participate. Just going to say I love my culture, and that suicide is simply the last refuge of the weak-minded no matter what country you come from. Virginia Woolf Earnest Hemmingway Boudicca James Whale Cleopatra Decebal Maximian Sarah Marple-Cantrell Chris McKinstry Edwin Howard Armstrong James Robert Baker Wallace Carothers Are you actually saying that all these were all “weak-minded people”? That is an incredibly narrow view of suicide. Suicide isn’t always simply about not being able to “hack it”.
|
|
|
Post by The_L on Oct 14, 2009 7:37:29 GMT -5
Meanwhile in the US today, another hundred people committed suicide that's not newsworthy, another thousand were killed in car accidents, not newsworthy, and 4 people were shot and killed, also not newsworthy. Durring this time another 100 buglaries were committed and a few thousand viruses were sent to the capitol's computer database, all not newsworthy...because the US is used to blood and gore. Meanwhile, we'll feel free to point our fingers at other nations and say how bad they are Or it could be because we talk about that shit every single day of the week, eh? Or it could just be that both the Americans and the Japanese are dysfunctional hypocrites whose favorite pastime is holding up a caricature of the other nation at its worst and saying "well at least we aren't like them."
|
|
|
Post by Trevelyan on Oct 14, 2009 10:03:02 GMT -5
Sky, Scot, I ask this in the most polite way possible. What vile form of douchebaggery is this? Yes the Japanese have a high rate of suicide. Yes they tend to be work-oholics and sometimes work so much they risk damage to their health. Now please tell me how this makes them a worse culture than ours? I don't see them keeping those that don't wish to be in their society from leaving. Further, I don't see any instance where people who aren't holding themselves to a ridiculously high standard are being hunted down with pitch forks.
Think that the Japanese culture is too harsh on individuals? Think it expects too much out of people at too early an age? So do I. I think the Japanese could learn to be a little more relaxed. Does this make their culture invalid, stupid, or something to be dismantled? No it does not. It merely means that I do not agree with all the things they do.
Also, while we are on it, lets point out the good things here huh? They tend to take care of their elderly people over there quite nicely. Crime is very low. They have high speed bullet trains, and mass transit is an ingrained part of life. I could go on and on, and provide links for all of these, but I'm just going to use your out and say that I've had a long night at work and need to go to bed soon.
In conclusion, picking a subject, coming up with some flimsy things against it and then tag teaming said subject like two amateur nacho libre wrestlers does not make your viewpoints suddenly valid without needing any sources. Their culture is different that ours. In many aspects it can be seen as being harsher. This does not invalid it, make it evil, or any of the the other things you seem to be implying. Do they come up with some weird shit? Yes they do, but they aren't the only cultural to do so.
So, I've said this once to you Sky, now I say it to both you and Scot. No where in this rambling trainwreck of a thread have either of actually come close to anything that resembles an actual thought. I award you no points and may the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on your soul.
|
|
|
Post by skyfire on Oct 14, 2009 10:15:30 GMT -5
Sky, Scot, I ask this in the most polite way possible. What vile form of douchebaggery is this? Yes the Japanese have a high rate of suicide. Yes they tend to be work-oholics and sometimes work so much they risk damage to their health. Now please tell me how this makes them a worse culture than ours? I don't see them keeping those that don't wish to be in their society from leaving. Further, I don't see any instance where people who aren't holding themselves to a ridiculously high standard are being hunted down with pitch forks. Did I literally say it was bad? No. I said that it had many flaws, flaws which are often deep-seated or institutional, and that these flaws have had a negative impact on some aspects of their society. I said that Western society is becoming more aware of these flaws, especially in light of the fact that for almost 20 years Japan was regarded as a paragon of education, culture, and success in business. The pedestal has broken, and the notion of Japan being perfect has been toppled. In the wake of the collapse, people are trying to sift through everything in order to figure out what went wrong and what can still be salvaged. Additionally, I'm not above ragging on parts of US culture that I don't like. To assume that I am indicates how little you know of me. Heck, I was one of the first ones to point out the Nacirema paper to the posters here (look it up).
|
|
|
Post by rebelliousscot on Oct 14, 2009 10:27:57 GMT -5
Sky, Scot, I ask this in the most polite way possible. What vile form of douchebaggery is this? Yes the Japanese have a high rate of suicide. Yes they tend to be work-oholics and sometimes work so much they risk damage to their health. Now please tell me how this makes them a worse culture than ours? I don't see them keeping those that don't wish to be in their society from leaving. Further, I don't see any instance where people who aren't holding themselves to a ridiculously high standard are being hunted down with pitch forks. Think that the Japanese culture is too harsh on individuals? Think it expects too much out of people at too early an age? So do I. I think the Japanese could learn to be a little more relaxed. Does this make their culture invalid, stupid, or something to be dismantled? No it does not. It merely means that I do not agree with all the things they do. Also, while we are on it, lets point out the good things here huh? They tend to take care of their elderly people over there quite nicely. Crime is very low. They have high speed bullet trains, and mass transit is an ingrained part of life. I could go on and on, and provide links for all of these, but I'm just going to use your out and say that I've had a long night at work and need to go to bed soon. In conclusion, picking a subject, coming up with some flimsy things against it and then tag teaming said subject like two amateur nacho libre wrestlers does not make your viewpoints suddenly valid without needing any sources. Their culture is different that ours. In many aspects it can be seen as being harsher. This does not invalid it, make it evil, or any of the the other things you seem to be implying. Do they come up with some weird shit? Yes they do, but they aren't the only cultural to do so. So, I've said this once to you Sky, now I say it to both you and Scot. No where in this rambling trainwreck of a thread have either of actually come close to anything that resembles an actual thought. I award you no points and may the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on your soul. Hey I do have some respect for Japan, for instance Ghibli studios, I just never knew what price it came at. Of course was wrong to think that this had didn't have a price. But we are naive. Also I began this thread for clogging up another so much. And I'll probably do more research now to find out more.. But though some of the stuff sky said can be consituted as unreliable at best, some seems believable. I admit that whole convo with sky was at like 3 in the morning and I wasn't really debating anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Trevelyan on Oct 14, 2009 10:34:15 GMT -5
Sky don't even pull that on me. You don't get to tip toe around calling the Japanese culture bad and then call "safety" because you didn't LITERALLY say they were bad. What you have said is that the idea of Japan as top notch is shattered and now we are all seeing its seedy underbelly. You then went on to list all of its bad traits without even doing it the honor of sources, and then shit into that particular wound by not listing a single good thing about it. You may not have said "I think Japan is a bad culture" but you sure as hell implied it.
Scot, I recommend that in any further conversations with Sky the first thing out of your mouth after he tells you somethings should be "Sources please?" And before you get all up in arms Sky, I have told you that if you want to present something from your viewpoint you do so with "I think", "My thoughts are", and then you don't have to give sources. You can't present your viewpoints as facts without sources. Doesn't work that way.
|
|
|
Post by The Lazy One on Oct 14, 2009 10:52:36 GMT -5
I just thought I would mention this: Japan does not have the highest suicide rate in the world. That would be Lithuania.
Every country has its faults. America's education system lags behind many other developed countries. The British justice system needs reforming. Japan puts insane pressure on students and workers. You can look at any country and see problems that need to be fixed.
Just my $.02.
|
|
|
Post by MaybeNever on Oct 14, 2009 11:33:33 GMT -5
Just in case anyone was hoping for me to say something here, I'm not really going to participate. Just going to say I love my culture, and that suicide is simply the last refuge of the weak-minded no matter what country you come from. Good old blanket generalizations and blaming the victim. Is there anything you can't solve?
|
|
|
Post by rebelliousscot on Oct 14, 2009 11:45:25 GMT -5
Sky don't even pull that on me. You don't get to tip toe around calling the Japanese culture bad and then call "safety" because you didn't LITERALLY say they were bad. What you have said is that the idea of Japan as top notch is shattered and now we are all seeing its seedy underbelly. You then went on to list all of its bad traits without even doing it the honor of sources, and then shit into that particular wound by not listing a single good thing about it. You may not have said "I think Japan is a bad culture" but you sure as hell implied it. Scot, I recommend that in any further conversations with Sky the first thing out of your mouth after he tells you somethings should be "Sources please?" And before you get all up in arms Sky, I have told you that if you want to present something from your viewpoint you do so with "I think", "My thoughts are", and then you don't have to give sources. You can't present your viewpoints as facts without sources. Doesn't work that way. Thanks for understanding, I think in future just don't begin long major discussions so late on, as I was probably a little too accepting of some information. Is it worth asking for this topic to be closed, or just let it die a natural death?
|
|