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Post by MaybeNever on Apr 4, 2010 20:29:18 GMT -5
By "book report" they obviously mean the kind of report that is published by think tanks or the UN in the form of a massive tome, which are 82 words of dubious insight and 820 pages of bullshit nonsense representing tremendous amounts of effort that could have been better spent doing virtually anything else.
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Post by Tiger on Apr 4, 2010 22:52:43 GMT -5
If the school had just given her a book report, an essay and/or made her clean her desk/every desk in the classroom that'd be one thing. One million is a lot but how much is right? I think NYC should pay for all future schooling and books. Everything from her going to a private junior high, high school and any and all college she attends during her life. That seems fair. It's a lot less than a million dollars, to be sure.
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Post by skyfire on Apr 4, 2010 23:16:14 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with Sky, Zero Tolerance = Zero Common Sense. All these policies do is protect people from having to make judgment calls. One of the biggest things I remember about my high school was the fact that, according to the student handbook, if at any point in time a fight broke out both parties were subject to getting arrested by the campus cops. That's right: if a person was beating the hell out of you, you had to go and get a teacher; trying to defend yourself was regarded as a criminal offense. I 'bout near made one of the cops piss himself one day over that. He and one or two other cops came into the intro / business & personal law class I took my junior year for a Q&A session, and I asked them about it point-blank. Apparently, they'd never even heard of that clause in the student handbook and were mortified at the prospect of having to arrest someone simply for self-defense.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Apr 5, 2010 0:03:48 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with Sky, Zero Tolerance = Zero Common Sense. All these policies do is protect people from having to make judgment calls. One of the biggest things I remember about my high school was the fact that, according to the student handbook, if at any point in time a fight broke out both parties were subject to getting arrested by the campus cops. That's right: if a person was beating the hell out of you, you had to go and get a teacher; trying to defend yourself was regarded as a criminal offense. I 'bout near made one of the cops piss himself one day over that. He and one or two other cops came into the intro / business & personal law class I took my junior year for a Q&A session, and I asked them about it point-blank. Apparently, they'd never even heard of that clause in the student handbook and were mortified at the prospect of having to arrest someone simply for self-defense. That's nothing. I've seen commercials that encourage the kid to TALK his way out of the situation. Yeah, like that'd earn you anything more than broken teeth. I've heard so many horror stories on this very board about public school and the victim being blamed that I find it hard to believe public school is anything about a "bullies rule and the victims get punished" establishment. Obviously, I know this is not the case, but still. What's even more infuriating is that you can get in trouble... for defending someone else who is getting picked on. Altruism is punished, self-defense is punished, getting beaten up is punished... yeah. I'm glad I was home schooled.
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Post by skyfire on Apr 5, 2010 0:07:10 GMT -5
yeah. I'm glad I was home schooled. It's almost to the point that I'm considering home-schooling any children that I may have.
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Post by ironbite on Apr 5, 2010 2:55:28 GMT -5
You'd need a girl for that.
Ironbite-or an adaption agency.
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Apr 5, 2010 3:33:08 GMT -5
Adaption agency you say?
Come to my adaption agency and you'll be qualified to live in whatever enviroment I simulate in my backyard. Currently it's a backyard simulation, so you'll learn how to hide in a tree, bush or grass.
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Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on Apr 5, 2010 3:47:52 GMT -5
Just sign right here on the dotty line, and the adaption will be complete.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Apr 5, 2010 4:11:30 GMT -5
You'd need a girl for that. Ironbite-or an adaption agency. No need to be an asshole, he was legitimately contributing.
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Post by The_L on Apr 5, 2010 6:24:05 GMT -5
This is why so many people hate "zero tolerance" policies in schools: because all too often, they end up as "zero common sense" policies. It's also part of the reason why so many people are eager to move their kids into either private schools or home schooling. It's not much better in some private schools. The only real difference is what there's zero tolerance of. As for the schools where no one gives a shit about graffiti--holy hell, do those schools even care about the students at all? I know I'd hate having to go to a school with things written and drawn on the walls. And the only places I've ever seen such a phenomenon were at schools where the teachers and administration were either on a huge power trip, or totally burned out on teaching.
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Post by canadian mojo on Apr 5, 2010 6:28:38 GMT -5
One of the biggest things I remember about my high school was the fact that, according to the student handbook, if at any point in time a fight broke out both parties were subject to getting arrested by the campus cops. That's right: if a person was beating the hell out of you, you had to go and get a teacher; trying to defend yourself was regarded as a criminal offense. I 'bout near made one of the cops piss himself one day over that. He and one or two other cops came into the intro / business & personal law class I took my junior year for a Q&A session, and I asked them about it point-blank. Apparently, they'd never even heard of that clause in the student handbook and were mortified at the prospect of having to arrest someone simply for self-defense. That's nothing. I've seen commercials that encourage the kid to TALK his way out of the situation. Yeah, like that'd earn you anything more than broken teeth. I've heard so many horror stories on this very board about public school and the victim being blamed that I find it hard to believe public school is anything about a "bullies rule and the victims get punished" establishment. Obviously, I know this is not the case, but still. What's even more infuriating is that you can get in trouble... for defending someone else who is getting picked on. Altruism is punished, self-defense is punished, getting beaten up is punished... yeah. I'm glad I was home schooled. And in a nutshell this is why you teach your kids that if they do get in a fight, they put a major hurting on the other kid. The thought of getting their ass kicked is the only real deterrence to a bully in this system. Don't you love how a system designed to squash violence only escalates it?
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Post by The_L on Apr 5, 2010 6:33:05 GMT -5
I went to a private school. The punishment for picking fights, or for hitting another student, was detention. You weren't punished for defending yourself. The result? I only remember one or two minor scuffles in eight years at that school.
Of course, I was in detention all the time for a totally unrelated offense, so I got to see the perps--usually elementary kids who hadn't figured out yet that that wasn't cool.
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Post by skyfire on Apr 5, 2010 8:04:34 GMT -5
And in a nutshell this is why you teach your kids that if they do get in a fight, they put a major hurting on the other kid. The thought of getting their ass kicked is the only real deterrence to a bully in this system. Don't you love how a system designed to squash violence only escalates it? I actually got to experience the transition happen, due in part to my moving cross-town during elementary school. At the first one? Fights on the playground were relatively common, and I admit to having been involved in more than a few. Unless you cussed the other kid out or you left bruises, however, the teachers were willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was some rough play that got out of hand. The only time I actually ended up in the principal's office was when some kid pushed me entirely too far one day and so I put him in a sleeper hold just to shut his ass up; given that he never messed with me again, it was worth it. At the second one? This was the same school that gathered us all up so that we could sing, dance, and release balloons to the tune of Michael Jackson's latest "I love the world!" song and had PE teachers who decided that making us learn line dancing was the neatest thing. It'd have been hippie heaven if it wasn't for the fact that several of the teachers there were assholes and one of the principals they had was there because once upon a time he tried to put the moves on a high school girl; the school board didn't want to fire his ass, and so they simply demoted him and left him there until retirement.
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Post by the sandman on Apr 5, 2010 8:42:55 GMT -5
"Zero Tolerance" policies have always been a tragically shitty idea. I know of an 8th grade girl suspended for "bringing a gun to school;" she had a tiny squirt gun shaped like Tweety Bird clipped to her backpack. I also know of a 6th grade boy suspended for "having a concealed weapon in his pocket." A pair of nail clippers with that little attachment for cleaning your fingernails.
There are high-school girls suspended for having a scarf on their hair (no bandanas, they're "gang related"), high school track teams where the shot puts and javelins are locked in the Principal's office and must be signed out by the track coach, middle schoolers suspended for having "materials promoting violence" in their lockers (X-Men comics), and elementary school kids kicked out of school for saying "I wish you were dead!" while in the middle of an emotional melt-down.
Zero Tolerance makes no sense because it treats everyone and everything exactly the same. Which sounds like a fine idea, except for the fact that you just can't treat kids that way. Every kid is different and it's developmentally and disciplinarily more important WHY a kid does something than it is what they actually DO. A kid brings a nailclipper to school? I need to know why they did it before I can deal with the situation. They brought it to stab Becky in math class? Toss 'em. They brought it to, oh, I dunno, clip their nails? No big deal at all. Tell 'em not to bring it back if it worries you. Incident over.
Little Billy tells teacher he wishes she were dead? is it because Little Billy is a closet sociopath and has been nursing a deep hatred for teacher for years and has a gun at home or is it because he just bombed his math test from not studying and dad is gonna whip his ass when he gets home? Is it a threat or emotional steam? Zero Tolerance doesn't even let you ask that question; it just tossed Little Billy out on his ass.
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Apr 5, 2010 8:52:51 GMT -5
I had a pocket knife that I used in shop classes for opening boxes or whatever and in some cases cleaning my nails which I did in class.
One guy decided to be an asshole and said I have a knife and threatened to stab him. The teacher took it seriously and had me empty my pockets.
In my pockets was a discman (which I couldn't get out of my pocket), keys, barrettes, change, two pocket knives both the safe only one with a more worn out handle. The blade on both of them is maybe an inch and a half.
Got escorted to the principals office as the vice-principal, the guy who does everything and would have thrown my ass out forever was busy. In the principals office, I explained that I used them in shop classes, which he said was understandable, but due to the fact they're potentional weapons he had to confinscate them and I could get them back in two weeks when the school year ended.
I never did and probably should some day.
What I tried to get at was due to some guy being an asshole the teacher took a claim seriously which actually did turn out to be serious and if it wasn't for the hard-ass vice-principal being in a meeting or something I would have been kicked out of school.
Although I did pull a knife on someone once before outside of school, but it was understandable as the person was coming at me after saying he would kick my ass.
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