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Post by Admiral Lithp on Aug 7, 2011 4:59:05 GMT -5
YES.
Do you fucking aquit a murderer because they claim they didn't kill someone?
You SHOULD be able to TELL when indoctrination is going on, & know enough to know that these people are going to lie to you.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Aug 7, 2011 5:17:35 GMT -5
"Read between the lines" huh? Access Ministries? The people who said this! Lighthorseman, don't just read between the lines. Read the friggin' lines already.
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Post by lighthorseman on Aug 7, 2011 5:32:28 GMT -5
"Read between the lines" huh? Access Ministries? The people who said this! Lighthorseman, don't just read between the lines. Read the friggin' lines already. I didn't know they'd said that. I don't have a lot of time for evangelicals, but I still don't have a problem with them teaching a religion class in any given school. I would like to see other religious groups take the opportunity to host their own classes in the same way, though. Still not seeing the problem with athiest kids being able to voluntarily opt out though.
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Aug 7, 2011 5:49:41 GMT -5
Isn't there an innate problem with a teacher taking a side in a sectarian issue? The fact that not all of the student body or their parents may share the teachers beliefs. In this case not only is this happening the sectarian belief is being pushed by people who are not teachers and therefore shouldn't be taking a class!
Put it another way, if a school was running a politics class and the person running that class was a member of the National Party and used the classroom as a pulpit to openly attempt to recruit kids to his political cause would you have a problem with that, no? What about the Communist party?
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Post by malicious_bloke on Aug 7, 2011 6:00:07 GMT -5
Isn't there an innate problem with a teacher taking a side in a sectarian issue? That's right, no one with a vested interest in one particular religion should be allowed to teach kids about religion. Being a card carrying atheist should thus be a requirement for any religious education teacher
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Post by lighthorseman on Aug 7, 2011 6:00:58 GMT -5
Isn't there an innate problem with a teacher taking a side in a sectarian issue? The fact that not all of the student body or their parents may share the teachers beliefs. In this case not only is this happening the sectarian belief is being pushed by people who are not teachers and therefore shouldn't be taking a class! Put it another way, if a school was running a politics class and the person running that class was a member of the National Party and used the classroom as a pulpit to openly attempt to recruit kids to his political cause would you have a problem with that, no? What about the Communist party? I've had teachers like that, actually. Uni lecturers too. I dunno... I think what you're talking about here goes to the question of just "objective" any teacher can be on an issue that is dear to them. Do you think you, as an athiest (you are an athiest, right?) could teach a class on religion without your beliefs influencing the discussion? ETA: I think the answer to sectarian slanted teachers is to expose kids to as many different viewpoints as possible, and do it in a constructive learning framework, rather than try to censor what views kids are exposed to.
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Post by lighthorseman on Aug 7, 2011 6:03:17 GMT -5
Isn't there an innate problem with a teacher taking a side in a sectarian issue? That's right, no one with a vested interest in one particular religion should be allowed to teach kids about religion. Being a card carrying atheist should thus be a requirement for any religious education teacher Becuse athists don't have a vested interest in any particular religious view? Richard Dawkins, for example?
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Post by malicious_bloke on Aug 7, 2011 6:07:54 GMT -5
dammit, you've seen through my cunning ruse >_>
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Aug 7, 2011 7:10:13 GMT -5
Still not seeing the problem with athiest kids being able to voluntarily opt out though. The problem is that it's a default course, even if it allows people to opt out. Even if it was being taught entirely from an academic perspective, with no evangelizing, would it not be more productive to offer it as one of the optional courses students select before each school year, alongside home ec., shop class, drama, etc.?
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Post by lighthorseman on Aug 7, 2011 7:17:55 GMT -5
Still not seeing the problem with athiest kids being able to voluntarily opt out though. The problem is that it's a default course, even if it allows people to opt out. Even if it was being taught entirely from an academic perspective, with no evangelizing, would it not be more productive to offer it as one of the optional courses students select before each school year, alongside home ec., shop class, drama, etc.? Honestly, I don't really see the difference.
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 7, 2011 7:21:27 GMT -5
The problem is that it's a default course, even if it allows people to opt out. Even if it was being taught entirely from an academic perspective, with no evangelizing, would it not be more productive to offer it as one of the optional courses students select before each school year, alongside home ec., shop class, drama, etc.? Honestly, I don't really see the difference. ...You don't see the difference between evangelising and academic?
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czechmate
Full Member
Czech Republic / UK
Posts: 123
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Post by czechmate on Aug 7, 2011 7:31:55 GMT -5
In many European countries, teaching of religion is an option. Only in Slovakia and Poland is it compulsary, with Poland gradually getting more secular and slowly prospering as a result. If you want religion taught - go to an intercoursing church! Unfortunately in Poland, the church virtually runs one of the national TV stations (TVP2) and to watch that crap on a Sunday is brainwashing to the nth degree.
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 7, 2011 7:39:29 GMT -5
Yeah, seriously. I for one am outraged that schools aren't teaching kids about Star Trek and Harry Potter! And if not Star Trek, can we get a class teaching the ways of the Force? I'm in regular correspondence with Yoda's ghost, so I think we can make it work.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Aug 7, 2011 7:55:19 GMT -5
The problem is that it's a default course, even if it allows people to opt out. Even if it was being taught entirely from an academic perspective, with no evangelizing, would it not be more productive to offer it as one of the optional courses students select before each school year, alongside home ec., shop class, drama, etc.? Honestly, I don't really see the difference. You don't see the difference between having them sit in the library, versus having them attend a different class while the theology course is in session? The latter is more productive for the students, doesn't foster feelings of exclusion, and let's the kids exert far more control over their education. Additionally, if this theology class -- again, with the stipulation that it's being taught from an academic perspective, without evangelizing -- was given a full hour to align with the other classes, the course itself would be significantly more thorough, with twice as much time to include as many different religions as possible, and even more if it was upgraded to a full course.
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Post by lighthorseman on Aug 7, 2011 11:45:10 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't really see the difference. You don't see the difference between having them sit in the library, versus having them attend a different class while the theology course is in session? The latter is more productive for the students, doesn't foster feelings of exclusion, and let's the kids exert far more control over their education. Additionally, if this theology class -- again, with the stipulation that it's being taught from an academic perspective, without evangelizing -- was given a full hour to align with the other classes, the course itself would be significantly more thorough, with twice as much time to include as many different religions as possible, and even more if it was upgraded to a full course. Did you not have free periods at school?
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