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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 15, 2011 13:25:11 GMT -5
Am I the only one who read the last 3 words in the title of this thread as some sort of sports intro? Like, "People's...VETO CHALLENGE!"
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Post by priestling on Oct 15, 2011 14:15:17 GMT -5
Makes me think of the old Presidential Fitness Challenge back in grade school.
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Post by discoberry on Oct 15, 2011 18:38:55 GMT -5
Who is secretly funding this one???
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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 15, 2011 19:47:22 GMT -5
I say we blame...
*rolls a d20*
Lithp.
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Post by syaoranvee on Oct 15, 2011 20:30:27 GMT -5
Also, as sick as I am of explaining this, I'll do so one more time. It's not about public money, its about places in universities/colleges going to illegals when there's already more than enough citizens and foreigners with valid student visas already who'd love to fill them. That's my beef here. Private Colleges. They can pick and choose who they want because their paying for it. If they want to give a grant to a dedicated hardworking illegal over the guy from the surburbs who only cares about drinking themselves into a stupor and getting laid. Good. I can't blame them one bit. We're fucking losers in the world stage of education and it's time our kids learn the concept of hard competition. And once again, your arguement is nothing by your own logic, you aren't a citizen so you can STFU. At least cestlefun17 has something to stand on with his opinion. |
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Post by itachirumon on Oct 15, 2011 20:35:37 GMT -5
Also, as sick as I am of explaining this, I'll do so one more time. It's not about public money, its about places in universities/colleges going to illegals when there's already more than enough citizens and foreigners with valid student visas already who'd love to fill them. That's my beef here. Private Colleges. They can pick and choose who they want because their paying for it. If they want to give a grant to a dedicated hardworking illegal over the guy from the surburbs who only cares about drinking themselves into a stupor and getting laid. Good. I can't blame them one bit. We're fucking losers in the world stage of education and it's time our kids learn the concept of hard competition. And once again, your arguement is nothing by your own logic, you aren't a citizen so you can STFU. At least cestlefun17 has something to stand on with his opinion. I'm agreing with Sayoranvee.... .... ....-checks to see if hell's frozen over- Huh. |
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Post by Kit Walker on Oct 15, 2011 21:59:48 GMT -5
So, what I'm getting here from the popular opinion of this board, is that a sovereign nation has no right to control its borders so long as the people immigrating illegally have a really good reason to do it. They also must provide the full benefits of citizenship for these illegal immigrants, including a college education, because ensuring the law is obeyed is violating their human right to live in a nation better than the one they were born in. And that saying otherwise is racist.
Fuck you racists, I'm going to Canada where I will get free healthcare. As a poor college student with a semi-retired/unemployed father, my life will be better if I can get my dental check-ups, physicals, and other regular preventative care. So I will jump the border, because it would be a denial of my human rights for them to kick me out. Right?
Its not that we don't need immigration reform in this country, it is that we need a better reform policy than "everyone come on in, don't bother to sign the guestbook".
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Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 16, 2011 5:53:30 GMT -5
Private Colleges. They can pick and choose who they want because their paying for it. If they want to give a grant to a dedicated hardworking illegal over the guy from the surburbs who only cares about drinking themselves into a stupor and getting laid. Good. I can't blame them one bit. We're fucking losers in the world stage of education and it's time our kids learn the concept of hard competition. So you assume that there aren't enough hardworking legal students (which also includes foreigners who have a student visa, I may add) to fill every place right? That's not one bit of an ass-pull at all. And once again, your arguement is nothing by your own logic, you aren't a citizen so you can STFU. At least cestlefun17 has something to stand on with his opinion. No, by my own logic I'm not allowed to attend an American university/college without a student visa. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to argue on the internet. |
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Post by Distind on Oct 16, 2011 6:10:07 GMT -5
This has to be some of the most bleeding heart bullshit I've ever seen.
Out of pure curiousity, how many here know an illegal, who wasn't aware of the fact until they were nearly 20? Even one and I'll consider not completely dismissing most of the arguments made here.
Technically speaking, being an illegal, is illegal. Until that is somehow altered, giving them the ability to do further things in the US is largely setting them up for failure, as what the balls does an illegal do with a college degree, when employing them is still fucking illegal. It's not like a college degree magically makes them a citizen, it just puts them in debt like the rest of us.
Which assuming this was all taken to it's more logical conclusion involves the illegal migrating back to their country of origin so they can actually get a job. Or are they going to bother to become a citizen so they can get a job here, just after they've finished college? I can see how people would be pretty fucking annoyed with the former, and the later seems a bit late.
I can certainly see how it makes you all feel better to be so perfectly liberal as to promise an education to all, but, uh, education is supposed to have a point. When the person recieving said education has little to no option involving staying in the us they're going to be just as boned as they were, only now owe significant amounts of money. Which fits quite nicely with the wage slave culture despised by pretty much everyone on the board, and very little else.
And there are still jobs you get paid in cash, any of those require a college degree?
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Oct 16, 2011 9:54:29 GMT -5
I agree with Zachski, I just don't think the DREAM act is the right way to go, seeing how, at the end of their education, they're still illegal, and there's a strong possibility that someone could use that law to just find all the immigrants and deport them. Maybe if there was a way to change the law, instead of repeal it wholesale, to allow them asylum or apply for citizenship while going through college? It would only be giving asylum to the perceived "productive" members of society, not the drug traffickers and welfare people and whatever other terrifying stereotypes people like to point out, and at the end, they're citizens with a college degree, which puts them a step ahead.
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Post by Tenfold_Maquette on Oct 16, 2011 10:18:03 GMT -5
I rather like the idea of a program that provides educational opportunities while simultaneously advancing the students' ability to become a legal citizen.
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Post by Vene on Oct 16, 2011 10:19:37 GMT -5
I agree with Zachski, I just don't think the DREAM act is the right way to go, seeing how, at the end of their education, they're still illegal, and there's a strong possibility that someone could use that law to just find all the immigrants and deport them. Maybe if there was a way to change the law, instead of repeal it wholesale, to allow them asylum or apply for citizenship while going through college? It would only be giving asylum to the perceived "productive" members of society, not the drug traffickers and welfare people and whatever other terrifying stereotypes people like to point out, and at the end, they're citizens with a college degree, which puts them a step ahead. That was the purpose of the original, Federal, DREAM Act (if you were in the US as a kid and get a four year degree or serve in the armed forces, then you receive citizenship), but a state doesn't have that power. |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Oct 16, 2011 10:30:25 GMT -5
I agree with Zachski, I just don't think the DREAM act is the right way to go, seeing how, at the end of their education, they're still illegal, and there's a strong possibility that someone could use that law to just find all the immigrants and deport them. Maybe if there was a way to change the law, instead of repeal it wholesale, to allow them asylum or apply for citizenship while going through college? It would only be giving asylum to the perceived "productive" members of society, not the drug traffickers and welfare people and whatever other terrifying stereotypes people like to point out, and at the end, they're citizens with a college degree, which puts them a step ahead. That was the purpose of the original, Federal, DREAM Act (if you were in the US as a kid and get a four year degree or serve in the armed forces, then you receive citizenship), but a state doesn't have that power. And unfortunately, the federal one is stalled in the House, so... |
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Post by cestlefun17 on Oct 17, 2011 2:46:35 GMT -5
For the record, yes I do believe that these laws are unconstitutional. The federal government has domain over naturalization and immigration laws. So I do not see any disconnect in my positions.
This is not what I read, but regardless, the State of California should not be providing any sort of incentive to allow illegal immigrants to continue their illegal presence. If public monies are being used for this, it certainly makes it much worse of an offense, however the State of California should not be facilitating illegal presence even if the aid ultimately comes from the private sector.
My point is that states SHOULDN'T have immigration policies. There should be no "California immigration policy" nor an "Arizona immigration policy." Only one "United States immigration policy."
It provides incentives for people to continue their illegal presence in the United States of America in violation of federal law. California is not assisting the federal government in enforcing immigration law, nor are they remaining a neutral party. They are actively assisting illegal immigrants.
It's because I believe strongly in the rule of law. If we make extrajudicial exceptions to this law, there is no reason why we can't make extrajudicial exceptions to another law. Any changes to a law must be done through the correct and proper channels.
Private colleges still need to abide by the laws. And as other posters said, it's not like we have a shortage of qualified applicants who are either citizens, legal residents, or foreign students with student visas.
THANK YOU! I agree 100%
This would make a wonderful law. Except that CONGRESS needs to pass it. The State of California has no authority to give anyone asylum.
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