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Post by ironbite on Oct 28, 2011 1:00:51 GMT -5
Whyever not? That seems to be your attitude towards the Police. If pro-lifers were responsible for the deaths of untold millions of people in the 20th century alone, I might take you seriously. ........WHAT?! |
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 28, 2011 2:21:11 GMT -5
He has a point, sorta... Stalin's purges, and the rounding up of Jews under the NAZI regime, and pretty much any other example you care to think of involving "the knock on the door in the dead of night" usually involves a police force, rather than a military force. Of course, police forces under totalitarian regimes are often quite paramilitary, and the distinction between the two becomes very blurred. And, of course, wholly useless. By that standard, bureaucrats have killed millions. Bureaucrats have indeed killed millions. Neither the Holocaust, nor Stalin's purges could have ever happened without an army of bureaucrats behind the scenes "just doing their jobs". *sigh* And no, I am not implying that bureacrats are all evil genocidal enablers. |
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Post by priestling on Oct 28, 2011 2:29:44 GMT -5
LHM: Something my dad taught me when I was growing up and looking into history at the tender age of 6, and getting into WW2 era nastiness - "You're going to learn about and see a lot of bad things happening to good people, but remember this: Everything done in this world, for good or for ill, was done for what they saw as a noble cause."
... I was reading about Japanese bio-warfare and what exactly the Nazis were doing the following week. I spent the following several nights crying at the horrors of humanity. However, due to what my dad taught me, I've become a student of history and a would-be scholar since then.
I'm sorry, I got off track there. TL;DR version: Bureaucrats are only human. Just like everyone else.
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Post by scotsgit on Oct 28, 2011 4:19:28 GMT -5
Whyever not? That seems to be your attitude towards the Police. If pro-lifers were responsible for the deaths of untold millions of people in the 20th century alone, I might take you seriously. Please tell me about these 'untold millions'. Oh wait, you can't. Which is why I can' take you seriously. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 28, 2011 4:28:07 GMT -5
LHM: Something my dad taught me when I was growing up and looking into history at the tender age of 6, and getting into WW2 era nastiness - "You're going to learn about and see a lot of bad things happening to good people, but remember this: Everything done in this world, for good or for ill, was done for what they saw as a noble cause." ... I was reading about Japanese bio-warfare and what exactly the Nazis were doing the following week. I spent the following several nights crying at the horrors of humanity. However, due to what my dad taught me, I've become a student of history and a would-be scholar since then. I'm sorry, I got off track there. TL;DR version: Bureaucrats are only human. Just like everyone else. No, you are absolutely right. Every single really monstrous atrocity in history happened because someone truly believed it was necessary and for the good of the people who matter. |
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Post by Distind on Oct 28, 2011 5:42:31 GMT -5
Just to try to get off the 'OMG AA Said something' angle. I heard there was some kind of legal fight the protesters won on this. Anyone know more?
They might actually have a starting point if they can draw out a solid link of police action to corporate corruption. Particularly if a judge sided with them on being able to remain there. (As most of the laws I listed can be used to evict you, and then you can generally come right back, or if you go to court can prove they don't apply)
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Post by aboveathletics on Oct 28, 2011 9:48:51 GMT -5
He has a point, sorta... Stalin's purges, and the rounding up of Jews under the NAZI regime, and pretty much any other example you care to think of involving "the knock on the door in the dead of night" usually involves a police force, rather than a military force. Of course, police forces under totalitarian regimes are often quite paramilitary, and the distinction between the two becomes very blurred. And, of course, wholly useless. By that standard, bureaucrats have killed millions. Not really. Bureaucrats have ordered police forces to kill millions. It's the police actually doing the killing. |
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Post by aboveathletics on Oct 28, 2011 9:54:06 GMT -5
If pro-lifers were responsible for the deaths of untold millions of people in the 20th century alone, I might take you seriously. Please tell me about these 'untold millions'. Oh wait, you can't. Which is why I can' take you seriously. Holocaust, Stalin's Purges, Pol Pot, Maoist China, North Korea etc. It's utter crap to say that "Hitler" and "Stalin" killed people. Cops killed every single innocent person in those regimes. Hitler and Stalin just let the animals off the leash. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 28, 2011 12:34:38 GMT -5
Please tell me about these 'untold millions'. Oh wait, you can't. Which is why I can' take you seriously. Holocaust, Stalin's Purges, Pol Pot, Maoist China, North Korea etc. It's utter crap to say that "Hitler" and "Stalin" killed people. Cops killed every single innocent person in those regimes. Hitler and Stalin just let the animals off the leash. Cops or military, though? While I already agreed that cops, and highly paramilitarised police-like forces did a lot of the killing, the military probably killed just as many, if not more. That doesn't mean that all military personnel are likely to be murderers, any more than all cops are. |
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Post by aboveathletics on Oct 28, 2011 14:03:48 GMT -5
Holocaust, Stalin's Purges, Pol Pot, Maoist China, North Korea etc. It's utter crap to say that "Hitler" and "Stalin" killed people. Cops killed every single innocent person in those regimes. Hitler and Stalin just let the animals off the leash. Cops or military, though? While I already agreed that cops, and highly paramilitarised police-like forces did a lot of the killing, the military probably killed just as many, if not more. That doesn't mean that all military personnel are likely to be murderers, any more than all cops are. The line between police and military is blurry at best, especially nowadays. It's like Coke and Pepsi. Same basic thing, different packaging. Bottom line is, given the events of the 20th century, I think we have the right to be suspicious of, and steadfast in opposition to any increase in police power or resources. Ideally liberty and safety-minded citizens should be pushing to slash police and military budgets. That essentially, is all I have ever said on here. |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Oct 28, 2011 14:08:26 GMT -5
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 28, 2011 14:20:47 GMT -5
Cops or military, though? While I already agreed that cops, and highly paramilitarised police-like forces did a lot of the killing, the military probably killed just as many, if not more. That doesn't mean that all military personnel are likely to be murderers, any more than all cops are. The line between police and military is blurry at best, especially nowadays. It's like Coke and Pepsi. Same basic thing, different packaging. Bottom line is, given the events of the 20th century, I think we have the right to be suspicious of, and steadfast in opposition to any increase in police power or resources. Ideally liberty and safety-minded citizens should be pushing to slash police and military budgets. That essentially, is all I have ever said on here. There are some police that are supporting OWS. What say you? |
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 28, 2011 14:23:52 GMT -5
Cops or military, though? While I already agreed that cops, and highly paramilitarised police-like forces did a lot of the killing, the military probably killed just as many, if not more. That doesn't mean that all military personnel are likely to be murderers, any more than all cops are. The line between police and military is blurry at best Under certain totalitarian regimes, this is true. It isn't true in any Western democracy or constitutional monarchy I can think of. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 28, 2011 14:28:32 GMT -5
The line between police and military is blurry at best Under certain totalitarian regimes, this is true. It isn't true in any Western democracy or constitutional monarchy I can think of. One of the problems with AA is that he thinks that police under Hitler are the exact same as the police in the USA, in Canada, in Australia, etc. Because police are a hive mind or something like that. |
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Post by Ranger Joe on Oct 28, 2011 16:09:48 GMT -5
The police are clearly just doing their jobs, protecting freedom by not letting these criminal terrorists run amok in the streets. Besides, if these protesters weren't doing anything illegal, the police wouldn't be hurting them, right? Go be dumb someplace else. STOP RESISTING!!! **rubber bullets** |
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