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Post by NoLeafClover on May 20, 2009 11:50:01 GMT -5
Ugh, remember Voyager? There were entire episodes of that series where I had no idea what was happening--some treknobabble distortion threatens to destroy everyone, and the entirety of the episode is spent speaking non-sesnsical bullshit.
Or the twenty or so times Voyager hit the giant reset button at the end of an episode. "Year of Hell" was a great two part episode, up until the point where they hit the reset button and NONE OF IT EVER FUCKING HAPPENS.
This is why I have little regard for continuity in the series, since at any moment a quantum distortion molecular pulse can interact with the intermix chambers of the warp drive and create an ion matrix bubble that can set things EXACTLY where they were supposed to be before.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on May 21, 2009 1:50:35 GMT -5
But we can put all that aside, because OOOH PRETTY LIGHTS.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 21, 2009 8:15:51 GMT -5
Voyager was over the top with treknobabble. It also seemed to ignore any type of cannon. Enterprise was far, far worse in just ignoring cannon. That being said Nappy sumed up my feeling on the new movie pretty well......all flash. What I enjoy about Star Trek was more of the "thinking" aspect. Saddly the movies moved away from that. The last decent Trek Movie was Generations. Since then they have been for the most part action movies, which are a dime a dozen.
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Post by peanutfan on May 21, 2009 9:43:01 GMT -5
I might be wrong, but the impression I got from the Trek movies has always been that the "thinking" aspect has just been an excuse to throw in treknobabble (new fav word!) and rarely had anything to do with the actual plot. The only exception I can think of is in Star Trek 6, with the mystery of who framed the Enterprise for the attack on that Klingon ambassador ship.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 21, 2009 10:04:41 GMT -5
Thinking does not alway mean treknobabble. (it is a good word) For the most part you are right about the movies. The original movie was more mystery then action, then the movie series fell into the basic plot of bad guys want to destroy the Enterprise, or big bad guy wants to destroy earth. The only movies that went away from this premise were The Final Frontier, which still had the element in it, but was not the main plot. The Undiscovered Country, Generations, and Insurrection.
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Post by NoLeafClover on May 21, 2009 10:09:08 GMT -5
The series that had the most deep thought was Deep Space 9--TOS and the original series movies didn't have a whole lot of deep thought either. I mean, have you seen Search for Spock? Going back into the past to get a couple whales? <Insert Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor grunt here>
I think of the TNG movies, First Contact was probably the best, even though it threw all fucking cannon out the window (which is why I say any argument based around Star Trek canon is bullshit, since the entire Star Trek timeline should've changed the moment the Enterprise-E went through the time stream).
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Post by m52nickerson on May 21, 2009 11:14:03 GMT -5
The series that had the most deep thought was Deep Space 9--TOS and the original series movies didn't have a whole lot of deep thought either. I mean, have you seen Search for Spock? Going back into the past to get a couple whales? <Insert Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor grunt here> At least the all the series episodes had varied plots. I'm not looking for super deep stuff, just something different then the good guys vs the bad guys. First contact was not bad, but again it was basicly us vs them with the fate of earth in the balance. One question, how did First Contact throw cannon out the window?
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Post by wisechild on May 21, 2009 13:06:21 GMT -5
At the beginning of the film, seeing the disruption of the timeline didn't really bother me, figuring it will sort itself out, I would just roll with it, but then seeing the unresolved issue of planetary destruction, I would think that would throw off the political setting, drastically, of this "reboot".
I don't care what kind of "altered" history that Kirk had, and how it effected him, he should not have taken or been given command of The Enterprise so quickly. Hierarchy in a bureaucracy doesn't work that way.
The director and the writers took too many liberties.
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Post by peanutfan on May 21, 2009 17:27:50 GMT -5
Remember, this is the 23rd century, where supposedly all the problems we face now have been solved. I think that would include a solution to the problems of bureaucracy.
I don't see how the issue of Vulcan's destruction was unresolved; they didn't go deeply into it, but they touched on the issues facing the survivors at the end.
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Post by NoLeafClover on May 21, 2009 22:28:57 GMT -5
One question, how did First Contact throw cannon out the window? First when the Borg go though the time stream, the entire earth becomes populated with Borg, which means the Enterprise shouldn't exist. But they treknobabble explain that plothole away. Then they reveal themselves to Cochrane, which should set off some sort of butterfly effect, unless they were always supposed to show up and help Cochrane, which just dicks with continuity more. Then hey return to their own time and nothing happened and everything is honky doory and there's no change to he timeline even though they've pretty well screwed with continuity and...bah. Now I'm doing the nitpicking...
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Post by Armand Tanzarian on May 21, 2009 22:33:50 GMT -5
Ignoring every post before this, and as someone who's never seen a single Star Trek prior to this:
THIS MOVIE IS AWESOME
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Post by m52nickerson on May 22, 2009 8:15:41 GMT -5
First when the Borg go though the time stream, the entire earth becomes populated with Borg, which means the Enterprise shouldn't exist. But they treknobabble explain that plothole away. Then they reveal themselves to Cochrane, which should set off some sort of butterfly effect, unless they were always supposed to show up and help Cochrane, which just dicks with continuity more. Then hey return to their own time and nothing happened and everything is honky doory and there's no change to he timeline even though they've pretty well screwed with continuity and...bah. Now I'm doing the nitpicking... In one Enterprise they did state that Cochrane at one time made a statement about visiters from the future, then when thought insane he recanted. There most likely were changes, just not big ones.
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Post by Jebediah on May 23, 2009 19:52:50 GMT -5
Ignoring every post before this, and as someone who's never seen a single Star Trek prior to this: THIS MOVIE IS AWESOMEI have seen Star Trek, just not this particular series. I have to agree with this statement.
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Post by arkady on May 24, 2009 10:54:21 GMT -5
I liked the new Star Trek film.
And I'm afraid to say it did have one major plothole:
***SPOILER***
Why did Nero wait around and try to get his revenge when he could have gone to Romulus and warned everyone about it? The idiot!
[b/]***END SPOILER[/b]
Also, count of physics mistakes:
1. Completely ignored General Relativistic effects near the event horizon of a black hole. (Would have messed up the storytelling though).
2. Red Matter has some serious conservation of energy issues.
3. After being so careful in the opening sequence to avoid the "sound in space" thing, they pretty much ignore it for the rest of the film.
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Post by Vypernight on May 24, 2009 18:18:40 GMT -5
I liked the new Star Trek film. And I'm afraid to say it did have one major plothole: ***SPOILER***Why did Nero wait around and try to get his revenge when he could have gone to Romulus and warned everyone about it? The idiot! [b/]***END SPOILER [/b] [/quote] Well, just like the villain in, Meet the Robinsons, he really didn't think things through. Of course, considering his loss, that's a little understandable, even if Spock really wasn't at fault.
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