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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Aug 4, 2009 0:06:40 GMT -5
I'm (slowly, tiredly) working on a vampire-based novel, and I have several concerns with the vampires themselves, ones that I'm hoping the readers/authors of FSTDT will address...
1. They don't angst for angst's sake. Most, if not all, angst stems from abusive relationships. The Empath (Healer) characters generally display more angst than the vamps themselves.
2. They don't strictly fit the typical rules. THIS IS MY MAIN CONCERN. A lot of people, especially since Twilight became popular, seem hostile to the idea of a vampiric race that's only moderately affected by direct sunlight, the smell of garlic, the tough of wood and/or silver, etc. They don't sparkle, but that's not really saying much.
3. There's a weird monarchy that I'm still untangling. Is it entirely unrealistic to have a vampiric monarchy that stretches its reach over the globe, but only over its subjects? Does it have to be an all-or-nothing monarchy that controls the world's governments directly (which reminds me too much of the Reptilians), or should the rulers be localized and only concerned with the Families in their area/country?
...uh, yeah. Well. Blast away. *bows and trips off of the stage*
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Post by lunarxero on Aug 4, 2009 0:32:31 GMT -5
Even though I think right now vampires are a bit overused (coming from someone working on a novel with demon like creatures) I'll add my two cents.
1. I'm just going to skip this, to be honest I just don't get the point here. No offence or anything, but I'm drawing a blank.
2. There's bending the rules of vampires a little, and there's going too far. In Twilights case, too far...
... way too far
But ignoring Twilight making your vampires unique in some way can be a good thing. Movies like Underworld where the vampires are more modern, use guns and don't flinch at the sight of crosses (something I find fucking ridiculous in older vampire films) but they are affected by sunlight and can't eat. That's not the most unique vampire kind ever but it pulls vampires away from the whole Count Dracula era, which is good for more modern writing. Also I don't know if you've heard of a show called Moonlight. I'm pretty sure it was cancelled after it's first season but it had a vampire PI.
Sunlight didn't kill him but he didn't like it.
3. I don't think it's entirely unrealistic at all, in fact I think it to be a little more realistic but only in the sense that this monarchy looks after it's own kind. That sort of thing in a modern story could go a long way into explaining why no-one knows of vampires after all this time. Another thing in the Moonlight series was a certain organisation that would cover up the deaths of vampires or would enforce a sort of 'vampire law' so they could remain secretive. That was something I quite liked the idea of. A vampire monarchy that controls the world government is getting a little Reptilian as you said.
The one thing you have to remember with Vampire stories though is: Keep it somewhat original. Vampire stories are older than feudalism and have been done a hell of a lot of times. You should always have something fresh and new otherwise it becomes a boring read. It's no fun reading the same thing twice when you really didn't want to. ;D
I don't know if will help in anyway but I hope it does. I'm not sure I'm the greatest at advice.
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Post by kristine on Aug 4, 2009 0:35:09 GMT -5
1. why are their never vampire comedians, or beat poets, or laid back surfer dudes, or OCD accountant types? these are supposed to be people who used to be human - why should being old but looking young make you morose and goth?
2. There are a few series of books with non-traditional 'vampires' - the Sime~Gen Universe created by author Jacqueline Lichtenberg comes to mind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sime_-_Gen_Universe) and the vampires in the urban fantasy by Jim Butcher.
3. I think it would be completely realistic to say each area of the globe runs things differently.
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Post by lunarxero on Aug 4, 2009 0:43:17 GMT -5
1. why are their never vampire comedians, or beat poets, or laid back surfer dudes, or OCD accountant types? these are supposed to be people who used to be human - why should being old but looking young make you morose and goth? I think it has something to do with the whole loneliness of immortality thing that is seen all the time. Over time said vampire tends to become somewhat bored and/or depressed with their life... ... or death? |
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Post by Thejebusfire on Aug 4, 2009 0:48:33 GMT -5
I once thought about writing a piece about vampire mobsters. I thought it would be cool.
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Post by kristine on Aug 4, 2009 1:03:35 GMT -5
I once thought about writing a piece about vampire mobsters. I thought it would be cool. Read The Vampire Files series by P.N. Elrod - www.vampwriter.com/index.htm - interesting look at a 'traditional' vampire set in the 1930s - very Sam Spade like. I WANT A VAMPIRE STAND UP COMIC!! *whew* okay I just felt a need to say that. |
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Post by Thejebusfire on Aug 4, 2009 1:21:59 GMT -5
I once thought about writing a piece about vampire mobsters. I thought it would be cool. Read The Vampire Files series by P.N. Elrod - www.vampwriter.com/index.htm - interesting look at a 'traditional' vampire set in the 1930s - very Sam Spade like. I WANT A VAMPIRE STAND UP COMIC!! *whew* okay I just felt a need to say that. Sounds interesting. I'll have to look into that one. |
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Aug 4, 2009 1:36:14 GMT -5
Vampire mobsters would be pretty cool.
If you want ideas for different kinda of vampires the vampires from the Stephen King novels are pretty good.
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Post by kristine on Aug 4, 2009 1:50:02 GMT -5
1. why are their never vampire comedians, or beat poets, or laid back surfer dudes, or OCD accountant types? these are supposed to be people who used to be human - why should being old but looking young make you morose and goth? I think it has something to do with the whole loneliness of immortality thing that is seen all the time. Over time said vampire tends to become somewhat bored and/or depressed with their life... ... or death? some normal people are bored and lonely and if you read about some of the lives of the comedians they really have nothing to laugh at - it's just their sense of the absurd is very well developed. I would think with all the playing with language over time a very old person would have a very dry subtle wit that may pass over the heads of his younger human social crowd that he/she is trying to blend in with. Very old human's can have a great sense of humor (look at George Burns) why should a vampire be emotionless an morose? |
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Aug 4, 2009 2:26:36 GMT -5
I want to note that much of our "traditional" view regarding vampires comes from the film Nosferatu.
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Post by lonelocust on Aug 4, 2009 2:36:08 GMT -5
1)I think that there's no reason to have "vampires" per se if you're not going to stick to some of the underpinings of the gothic novel. I think not having them angst for angst's sake is good, because that is not good characterization. Some amount of angst/darkness is inherent in the vampire archaetype, and I think if you don't have a little bit of that, then you've left the idea of "vampires". So I am in opposition to the idea of vampire stand-up comics as main characters, though I see no problem with a bit of side character with that. (And Vampire mobsters have absolutely been done including in film. And of course everything including stand-up comics has been done in Vampire: The Masquerade [or Requiem barf] games.)
2)Note that the root of the modern gothic vampire is Bram Stoker's Dracula, who was not burned by sunlight. He lacked his magic vampiric powers in sunlight (some of the other vampires in the story are more susceptible. There's some suggestion that the amount of blood drunk or something like that raised his resistance, much as it revivified him in general, but Bram Stoker didn't go to the length that modern fantasy writers tend to to have a coherent and consistent metaphysics and magical system). I think "they sparkle" is stretching the sunlight weakness a bit far, but you can certainly get outside of the "burst into flame in sunlight" territory without straying from the modern gothic vampire archaetype.
3)Yeah, it's unrealistic to say the monarchy is global, but you know, you are writing about vampires. I personally think the "controlling the government" bit is dumb. If there's going to be any of that, just some localized one-on-one influence on local government officials or lobbyists or something is the furthest I would be willing to go. But I don't know what your plot is and whether that would be necessary or explained.
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Post by lunarxero on Aug 4, 2009 2:37:17 GMT -5
I think it has something to do with the whole loneliness of immortality thing that is seen all the time. Over time said vampire tends to become somewhat bored and/or depressed with their life... ... or death? some normal people are bored and lonely and if you read about some of the lives of the comedians they really have nothing to laugh at - it's just their sense of the absurd is very well developed. I would think with all the playing with language over time a very old person would have a very dry subtle wit that may pass over the heads of his younger human social crowd that he/she is trying to blend in with. Very old human's can have a great sense of humor (look at George Burns) why should a vampire be emotionless an morose? I was just explaining most peoples reasoning behind it. I personally think that it is overused and would love to see a funny or witty vampire. Or a pathetic, hopeless vampire that can't sweep anyone off their feet. |
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Post by Sandafluffoid on Aug 4, 2009 9:07:29 GMT -5
3. There's a weird monarchy that I'm still untangling. Is it entirely unrealistic to have a vampiric monarchy that stretches its reach over the globe, but only over its subjects? Does it have to be an all-or-nothing monarchy that controls the world's governments directly (which reminds me too much of the Reptilians), or should the rulers be localized and only concerned with the Families in their area/country? Depends to what extent the vampires are themselves involved in human culture. I've done things with societies that are so reclusive from humanity that they identify themselves as separate by their species, rather than their location. A monarchy like that though would be really just a more powerful version of the pope. It could work, but it depends a lot on where your character's loyalties lie and how they see themselves |
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Post by skyfire on Aug 4, 2009 11:07:58 GMT -5
1. They don't angst for angst's sake. Most, if not all, angst stems from abusive relationships. The Empath (Healer) characters generally display more angst than the vamps themselves. As mentioned elsewhere, much as vampires might carry over the attitudes they had in life, in time they run the risk of getting bored with immortality. On top of that, some vampire mythos hold that a person can become a vampire after committing some heinous deed or something else of that nature, with their vampiric nature divine punishment for their crime. For example, some retellings of "Dracula" have the count committing epic blasphemy; D&D's Von Straud brutally murdered his brother and the woman they shared when he had a fit of jealous rage one night. In the latter, they may have angst in them if they do legitimately feel guilty for what they've done. You may have penitent vampires who seek to punish themselves somehow for their sins, while others could become suicidal in nature as they want to die. IIRC, the series Astro City actually had a vampire become a superhero via his super strength and other traits; he wore a massive cross that helped suppress his urge to feed, and so dressed as a minister and called himself the Confessor. Then make your own. I'm doing an entire metaverse where magic exists in the modern day, and I'm having to write quite a bit of things as I go along... especially since the presence of magic has altered history to a somewhat significant extent. I'm actually having to include "encyclopedia entries" on certain spells in the back of each volume (starting with #2) just to help world-build for my readers. It would be a lot more realistic to have individual, highly-powerful vampires establish "kingdoms" or "domains" wherein all other resident vampires are regarded as subjects. They could lay claim to a small city-state or an entire real-world nation, something that could cause major problems if two or more vampires lay claim to the same piece of turf; this would give you an excuse for subtle politics or even full-scale vampire wars. |
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Post by peanutfan on Aug 4, 2009 12:21:59 GMT -5
You could have different vampire "races", based on the mortal culture they spring from and the method of their creation. This would allow you to deviate from the standard "bite and bleed", and introduce vampiric creatures that deviate widely from the standard. For example, in China there's a vampire-like creature that exists as a floating head with internal organs hanging down from the neck; it sucks out its victims' life force rather than anything physical.
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