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Post by Death on Mar 14, 2009 15:51:05 GMT -5
God, it's just so hard to believe that this sort of thing can happen anywhere in the world, that humans can be so stupid and hateful. I just wish there was a quick fix, but I guess it's gonna take a long time to fix; an uneducated population will never elect someone to educate them. ayep |
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Post by ltfred on Mar 14, 2009 18:24:57 GMT -5
Morgan Tsvangarai is leader of the MDC and the prime minister of Zimbabwe. The MDC is Zanu-PF main opposition party. Zanu PF is Robert Mugabe's party. You're absolutely right. I mixed up Tabu Mbeki and Morgan Tsvangarai. Brain snap on my part. Whoops. Morgan Tsvangarai has absolutely nothing to do with South African economic policy, and is therefore not at fault for their inequality and craziness. Duh, me. |
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Post by ltfred on Mar 14, 2009 21:26:55 GMT -5
Yeah but then you'd be arrested for racism. Name one country where 'racism' is a crime. One. You can't criticise them, it's just their culture But if I said that the elevated gun death rates in the United States- a developed country, so it's not due to weakness of the state- was due to their naturally violent culture, a culture which has invaded more countries and wiped out more cultures than any other (except maybe Britain), you'd call me anti-American. Is criticising 'African culture' (as if it's homogeneous) anti-African? |
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nuitarihw
Junior Member
What's holding up is a mirror
Posts: 90
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Post by nuitarihw on Mar 15, 2009 2:32:03 GMT -5
But if I said that the elevated gun death rates in the United States- a developed country, so it's not due to weakness of the state- was due to their naturally violent culture, a culture which has invaded more countries and wiped out more cultures than any other (except maybe Britain), you'd call me anti-American. Is criticising 'African culture' (as if it's homogeneous) anti-African? Actually, you would be pretty on beat with Michael Moore (not praising him particularly just sayin). I mean a lot of people criticize american culture and beliefs. Just look at where you're posting. The only people who would call you anti-american would be the fundies. |
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Post by ltfred on Mar 15, 2009 4:04:49 GMT -5
I don't know what 'felonious harrasment' means, but harrasment implies some action, not merely thought-crime. He put those ideas into action.
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Post by Jodie on Mar 15, 2009 4:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Mar 15, 2009 13:16:15 GMT -5
Actually, I do think America's culture has a very violent, jingoistic side to it. We see it all the time in our videogames and movies and TV shows. The FCC will censor someone's tits but a movie where Sylvester Stalone disembowels a man with a machete can be played on TV just fine. We've aired "Saving Private Ryan" on TV unedited at 8:00 PM to celebrate Veteran's Day, and that movie was all about the gore and brutality.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Mar 15, 2009 13:19:05 GMT -5
In Germany you can be fined and imprisoned for denying the Holocaust. If being a Holocaust-denier isn't racist or bigoted I don't know what is.
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Post by Sigmaleph on Mar 15, 2009 15:12:07 GMT -5
Hate-crimes and holocaust denial are not synonymous with racism, they are motivated by it. It would be like saying greed is illegal because bank robbery is a crime.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Mar 15, 2009 16:44:30 GMT -5
Hate-crimes and holocaust denial are not synonymous with racism, they are motivated by it. It would be like saying greed is illegal because bank robbery is a crime. In the case that I proposed it is very different; when you write a book or say in public that the Holocaust never happened, you're punished for it. What if you admitted to being a greedy bastard in a book or out in public and you were fined or imprisoned for it? |
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Post by malicious_bloke on Mar 15, 2009 16:52:59 GMT -5
In Germany you can be fined and imprisoned for denying the Holocaust. If being a Holocaust-denier isn't racist or bigoted I don't know what is. That's just another one of those bullshit lefty "ban it in the name of freedom" laws. Yeah it's offensive and unpleasant and it makes you look like a complete tard...but if you want to be widely known as a bigoted retard that's yer own prerogative innit |
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Post by Sigmaleph on Mar 15, 2009 19:24:21 GMT -5
Hate-crimes and holocaust denial are not synonymous with racism, they are motivated by it. It would be like saying greed is illegal because bank robbery is a crime. In the case that I proposed it is very different; when you write a book or say in public that the Holocaust never happened, you're punished for it. What if you admitted to being a greedy bastard in a book or out in public and you were fined or imprisoned for it? Invalid comparison. As I said, Holocaust denial isn't racism, it's a crime motivated by racism. Writing a book where I admit I'm racist wouldn't, by itself, get me a fine or imprisonment. |
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Mar 15, 2009 19:32:49 GMT -5
In the case that I proposed it is very different; when you write a book or say in public that the Holocaust never happened, you're punished for it. What if you admitted to being a greedy bastard in a book or out in public and you were fined or imprisoned for it? Invalid comparison. As I said, Holocaust denial isn't racism, it's a crime motivated by racism. Writing a book where I admit I'm racist wouldn't, by itself, get me a fine or imprisonment. How is it invalid? You write a book denying the Holocaust and get punished. You write a book saying you're greedy and would do anything to satiate that lust for money and you get punished. Both punish ideas and not criminal acts. In Germany, they go even further by punishing those who wear Swastikas or any other Nazi symbols. In essence, they are banning anti-Semitic ideas with hate-crime legislation. Anti-Semitism is a form of racism. While it is true that they cannot punish ideas that one holds in one's own mind, because that is impossible, they can punish you once you speak those opinions aloud. This is still punishing a person for a racist idea or belief. |
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Mar 15, 2009 21:43:55 GMT -5
The thing about anti-semetic writings is that they did have a disastrous effect. Propaganda was a huge part of the genocide of WWII. I'm not saying it's right to punish people for speaking their minds, I'm just saying that it can have a harmful effect, and therefore could be considered a crime. Writing a book on self-indulgence and greed being good, however, will probably not get you a following or lead to a bank robbery. So, yeah, invalid comparison. And yeah, saying that you're a racist bastard won't net you the same results as trying to persuade people to your side. But let's be honest here: If you're writing a book about that subject, is it really going to be XXX pages of you saying "I'm a racist bastard" in different ways? You're probably going to try to persuade people that you're right. Again, that doesn't mean....
(I should advise you that I will be doing this for a long itme, and you might want to get some snacks.)
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Post by stormwarden on Mar 15, 2009 22:50:01 GMT -5
Words have meaning, therefore, they have consequences. Anyone who ever lost an SO to words poorly spoken, or who observed Nancy Grace's driving Melinda Duckett to suicide would know this lesson well.
It is why laws against slander and libel exist, even if their enforcement isn't always up to task. Unfortunately, we live in an era of yellow journalism, where sensationalism is the order of the day.
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