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Post by ironbite on Sept 24, 2009 17:18:32 GMT -5
THE BIBLE The word that is not good enough for those here. it has to be in some text book with this or that to validate it This reminds me of a story about a documents forger He was said to be the best in his business and would ever so often forge documents that were contrary to what people had believed but first would do some to validate the writer and then come out with some outlandish stuff. Who is to say the first person who was on this kick was even a validatable person. Just because his peers say so, cause we all know that my peers saying cudos about me wouldn't work here. so why theres? Dude...do you not know where you are? We don't accept that peice of circular logic here. In fact most of us have come to the conclusion that just because the bible says so, doesn't make it real. Ironbite-try again. |
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Post by Rime on Sept 24, 2009 19:11:51 GMT -5
Lightmelon hello and how are you i am sorry to say that tarot is demonic. along with all witchcraft. At the age of twelve what happened to get you into tarot? i'm still working on going back and commenting on all your things i think it was you and valsa i was going to comment on. God only knows. this thread has taken a few turns but that is quite alright maybe it is best to set a foundation rather tha assume the foundation that is there is plyable. Ok folks, remember it's okay to cast spells if you think Jesus approves! If you're praying and you're asking Jesus to tell you what to do, it's not divination, it's having quality time with your Savior. If you flip through the horoscope pages, it's demonic! If he gives some specially prepared water, it's giving them the Water of Life to expel demons. If some Catholic priest does it, it's being dependent on man! If you think it's more plausible that some deity made a statue of a man out of dust and gave it CPR and rejecting we might have descended from other primates in spite of there being some evidence, it's called the believing the Truth. I don't know how I never noticed that before! This has been most edifying! |
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Post by m52nickerson on Sept 24, 2009 19:15:42 GMT -5
THE BIBLE The word that is not good enough for those here. it has to be in some text book with this or that to validate it No, in multiple text books after being in one or more peer reviewed journals, tested by others, and back up by evidence. ....because his peers, and their peers look at and challenge new findings. They put them to the test. That is way you hear about some so called scientific discoveries proved to be forgeries. They get challenged. Your lack of understanding on how the scientific method works is staggering. It does not make sense to you because you don't understand how it works. I am still waiting for you to answer my question regarding what you believe dust is made of? |
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Post by Rime on Sept 24, 2009 19:37:03 GMT -5
THE BIBLE The word that is not good enough for those here. it has to be in some text book with this or that to validate it This reminds me of a story about a documents forger He was said to be the best in his business and would ever so often forge documents that were contrary to what people had believed but first would do some to validate the writer and then come out with some outlandish stuff. Who is to say the first person who was on this kick was even a validatable person. Just because his peers say so, cause we all know that my peers saying cudos about me wouldn't work here. so why theres? Well, before 1900, scholars quite unanimously agreed that there was no such thing as an Ice Age because if there was one, it would have been mentioned in the Bible. It went downhill a bit from there. |
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 24, 2009 21:18:20 GMT -5
Rime
the bible does not disprove the ice age if you read the gap theory it will explain alot
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 24, 2009 21:29:28 GMT -5
as far as dust i don't know what it is made of but whatever it is it was created by God.
i would like to say that prior to me coming to this site i was informed by another member of our site of the badgering you have done about her here. She is still distraught. It is one thing to question what one says and another to make fun of her for saying it. All this site does is try to tear down those who are trying to do good. It sounds to me that there is noone here who is even remotely interested in God. I feel the only reason this thread has gotten as far as it has gone because it is seen as a fight against what you all hate. God does not hate you and it saddens Him to see this from you guys especially those who were once in His flock. But as the prodigal son came back so will some of you and the party over your return will be grand.
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Post by Armand Tanzarian on Sept 25, 2009 0:05:40 GMT -5
as far as dust i don't know what it is made of but whatever it is it was created by God. i would like to say that prior to me coming to this site i was informed by another member of our site of the badgering you have done about her here. She is still distraught. It is one thing to question what one says and another to make fun of her for saying it. All this site does is try to tear down those who are trying to do good. It sounds to me that there is noone here who is even remotely interested in God. I feel the only reason this thread has gotten as far as it has gone because it is seen as a fight against what you all hate. God does not hate you and it saddens Him to see this from you guys especially those who were once in His flock. But as the prodigal son came back so will some of you and the party over your return will be grand. Look, if she came here to sincerely ask questions and we badger her or overwhelm her, I am sincerely sorry. You should know we think at a different plane of logic than your brethren, and what we perceive as normal conversation you may see as an attack. However, if she came to preach, not to learn and discuss, then she deserves whatever's coming to her. We do not treat stubborn people here. This is why we are who we are. If we are not atheists then we are inquirers; some are atheists because we inquire and learn. The whole time you're here you've done nothing but criticize everyone and assert, again and again, the baseless and unproven claim that the Bible is true and God exists. You will convert no one. I suggest you get out because you are now no more than a ball of yarn to us. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 25, 2009 0:52:37 GMT -5
lonelocust we can debate healing until we are both blue in the face. i have heard of many healings. Testimonies from people at church and so on. That's fine. You believe it, and I believe there is insufficient evidence. The reason this is insufficient for me is because people of all religions, and various other pseudo-religious beliefs, experience similar personal experiences. I realize you think those other people are experiencing demons to throw them off from the one true god, but I see not evidence of that. Additionally, these experiences can be simulated by non-believers and get about the same level of subjective testimonies. The placebo effect explains these phenomena and testimonies very well. OK. I can accept that is what you believe. Again, these random aka miraculous healings happen across faith groups, and to non-believers. Prayer and religious healing shows no improved efficacy above placebo effects or sheer randomenss (and yes, people have specifically studied this), so it's not convincing to me. I get that it is convincing to you. I think that you are experiencing confirmation bias when noting other people's testimonies when their testimonies agree with your beliefs. Personal testimonies that don't agree with your beliefs you chalk up to demons. Failures you chalk up to lack of enough faith (or possibly, as some do, to it not being god's will at that time for the person to be healed - though I think you will chalk it up to demons and lack of faith instead, based on what you've said here). I have also had these sorts of personal subjective experiences, which is why I have a personal perspective both on why they are so convincing and why they are not representative of an objective phenomenon. Well if someone tomorrow submitted a paper saying that humans came from modern frogs, it would take more convincing than that. We've got a pretty complete fossil record from water-dwelling life to land dwelling life to mammals, and that all happened long before modern frogs were on the scene. It would be an extreme edit to claim that modern frogs were a direct ancestor of humans, and it would thus take an extraordinary amount of evidence to establish that, and that evidence and the new framework would need to accurately explain all the prior data that contradicts the notion that humans came from the modern frog, including the data that says modern frogs weren't around when land animals emerged or when basal mammals emerged. So if someone said it tomorrow, no, I wouldn't immediately change. I would be skeptical but open. If the next five years produced mounds of corroborating evidence, and fit the requirements outlined above, I'd change. That's pretty much what every scientist who knows anything about what he's talking about says. There is an extremely extensive fossil record, genetics, comparative anatomy, and possibly some other things that I'm not remembering off the top of my head that points to exactly that. Well, not modern fish, but sea-dwelling chordate vertebrates with hard skeletons and jaws - things which we would probably call a "fish". What exactly is your argument here? "Cmon now" is not an argument. Thank you for clarifying. I was confused by your wording. No really, I do. I am extremely well versed in what creationists believe, including young earth creationists, old earth creationists (including gap theory proponents), day-age creationists, and probably any other variation you can name. Feel free to quiz me about what you believe. I know what you believe. Or at least, I can answer questions and provide the apologetics (which are unconvincing to people who understand the evidence or science in general) and rhetoric for what you believe. And I understand what you believe about salvation, but I do not believe it. Just as I understand the many views on Abrahamic literalist creationism but believe none of them. Ah, so believing that Christ is the son of god and is god himself, that he came to earth and died for your sins, accepting him into your heart and repenting of your sins and asking him to be the lord of your life and for his spirit to come into you is not good enough for salvation or to be a True Christian, eh? You have to also believe that god created the heavens and the earth in a way that did not utilize evolution by means of genetic mutation and natural selection. (Oh, and you have to not be gay, because you mentioned that Valsa being gay [and a virgin even, though you ignored that] will send her to hell.) Because you get to define how god might have done things. Using a complex yet elegant and demonstrable biological process is not something that the god that you define is allowed to do. Only speaking incantations and bringing things forth in a way that defies the natural laws that he designed to elegantly run the universe once he was done making it (except when he decides to stick his finger in for a miracle here and there of course) is the only way you allow YOUR god to do things. He couldn't have just done it in a far more amazing and awe-inspiring way that plucks the heartstrings of those of us who love to learn and see how the universe works, then explained it in a simplified fashion that the people he revealed it to could understand and explain to all of their cohorts and children who didn't have the benefits of modern science that we now have. And he couldn't have left it as another beautiful thing about the world for future men to uncover and be amazed at. Because YOU just CAN'T imagine a god that does something like that. Incantations and bronze-age instead of space-age ideas of magic for YOUR god, yes sir. Because you can't say why it is that God chooses to do various things, because he is ineffable. But you CAN feel perfectly confidant that he certainly wouldn't do THAT. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 25, 2009 0:58:58 GMT -5
if a person bases what they know about Jesus from the bible and believe He is the Son of God and that the bible was true on this, why not believe the bible on the rest of what it says. Animals are His creation not the creator. If we go with the theory that we were made just like God and He is a monkey then how the heck could He have been smart enough to create anything. He would actually be as stupid as lets say A MONKEY. I know this wasn't you're comment but thought i would throw it in. You missed my jokes. Humans ARE monkeys. "Monkey" - or rather "Simian", I think - has a very precise biological definition. Humans have all of those characteristics. Then "ape" has a precise definition which includes all of the characteristics of monkeys and then some extra. Then "human" has all of those characteristics and then some extra. Thus, there's some really smart monkeys out there, like Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking. So god "could" be a very very smart monkey. And indeed if we are made in his image, he HAS to be a monkey, since we are. :-9 As to why believe the parts about Jesus and not the rest of it (and again note here I'm not speaking of my own beliefs but rather those of others whose beliefs I am very familiar with) they generally DO believe the Bible about those other parts, too. They mostly believe that Genesis 1 was the way that God explained the creation in a way that the inspirees could understand, or the way that they wrote it down based on the information that God inspired with or whatever. They believe it was put down in a way that the men of the time and not just the men of now could understand. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 25, 2009 1:07:52 GMT -5
as far as dust i don't know what it is made of but whatever it is it was created by God. i would like to say that prior to me coming to this site i was informed by another member of our site of the badgering you have done about her here. She is still distraught. It is one thing to question what one says and another to make fun of her for saying it. All this site does is try to tear down those who are trying to do good. It sounds to me that there is noone here who is even remotely interested in God. I feel the only reason this thread has gotten as far as it has gone because it is seen as a fight against what you all hate. God does not hate you and it saddens Him to see this from you guys especially those who were once in His flock. But as the prodigal son came back so will some of you and the party over your return will be grand. You are right about one thing - no one here is even remotely interested in god. Some of us (like me) are interested in why specific people believe the specific things that they do. No one ever said they were interested in your imagined god or your imagined healing. You came here of your own accord. I welcome you, and anyone, of just about any belief (I'm not OK with people here advocating killing or hurting people, but beyond that I'm pretty wide open personally), for whatever you want to say for your own reasons. But don't claim that we lured you here promising we wanted to hear your supposed truth because we believed any of it. Edit: Sorry, I think I overspoke. There are some Christians here on the board, but none that I'm aware of posting in this particular thread. Our Christains are probably not True Christians(tm) by your definition, and are not interested in being converted to your specific beliefs about the god that you both believe in, but they are certainly "interested in God". |
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Post by valsa on Sept 25, 2009 2:21:57 GMT -5
i would like to say that prior to me coming to this site i was informed by another member of our site of the badgering you have done about her here. She is still distraught. It is one thing to question what one says and another to make fun of her for saying it. All this site does is try to tear down those who are trying to do good. Lemme guess- it’s Jewels you’re talking about, right? Listen, she came HERE. She came to US. When someone comes to our site and preaches at us (which is exactly what she did), we’re not obligated to play nice. That being said, the majority of responses to her were not overly rude. We didn’t have to be pleasant but most of us were. The most common thing that was complained about was actually her horrible spelling/typing. I, literally, developed a migraine trying to read her comments. Had she come in and, respectfully, corrected us on some of the issues we were guessing wrongly at (like whether or not her autistic son was in school, etc) with at least half-way decently constructed comments, we wouldn’t have come down as hard on her as some did. The error was her’s, not our’s. It sounds to me that there is noone here who is even remotely interested in God. I feel the only reason this thread has gotten as far as it has gone because it is seen as a fight against what you all hate. God does not hate you and it saddens Him to see this from you guys especially those who were once in His flock. But as the prodigal son came back so will some of you and the party over your return will be grand. I don’t hate your god- he doesn’t exist. I can no more hate him than I could hate Thor or Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny. That being said, I think that, despite the noblest of intentions, you’re probably doing more harm than good. If all you work with is people who are struggling with personality flaws and your ministering helps them overcome these flaws- then that’s great. However, if you’re dealing with seriously mentally ill people and are using the religious placebo effect to get a temporary “cure”, that’s only going to lead to more problems later on (as has happened in the past when mentally ill people stop taking their meds “because God has cured me” only to do serious harm to themselves or others when their symptoms come back with a vengeance later) |
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lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 25, 2009 4:05:38 GMT -5
lol I offered to be friends with Jewels and got no response T_T Because...I'm pagan maybe? >_> And I'm good Nautical, thanks  Today is me and my boyfriend's 1 year anniversary. How are you?^^ And I started studying astrology at like...8 because I've always been interested in the stars and planets and luminaries. I have seen over the years just how much people play out their charts perfectly at least 99.9% of the time, and it's impossible to ignore that this study thats lasted thousands of years and is still accurate to this day. People will argue with me, and I'll be stubborn as hell about it, just like a normal Cappie. As for the tarot...got my first deck at a yard sale when I was 12, and took to it immediately, like a duck to water. I'm still not 'great', but I'm pretty good. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 25, 2009 4:37:31 GMT -5
So Lightmellon, an ex of mine who believed in the accuracy of astrology (I do not, and think that confirmation bias accounts for thinking it's 99.9% accurate, based on my current data and observations) offered to make me a "full chart" or whatever as evidence that I could skeptically check out. Any chance you do that sort of thing and would like to for me? I hate to knock things before I try them or dismiss ideas without data and am always up for a mind-changer. :-D
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Post by valsa on Sept 25, 2009 5:46:57 GMT -5
So Lightmellon, an ex of mine who believed in the accuracy of astrology (I do not, and think that confirmation bias accounts for thinking it's 99.9% accurate, based on my current data and observations) offered to make me a "full chart" or whatever as evidence that I could skeptically check out. Would you or Lightmelon like to be so very kind as to explain to me what an astrology chart is? It sounds kinda cool (I was never into that stuff because I grew up in the middle of the city and would be lucky to ever see more than a few stars at night) I did used to have a tarot deck... though it's been years since I've seen it around (I could have sworn I packed it in the shoebox that has all my Yu-Gi-Oh cards but, alas, it's not in there) Never got really big into that either, though I still think that stuff is fun. |
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Post by m52nickerson on Sept 25, 2009 6:42:54 GMT -5
as far as dust i don't know what it is made of but whatever it is it was created by God. Wow. Even a middle schooler could say atoms or molecules. Please tell me that you are not going to question atomic theory. Well if she was making statement about things that she was ignorant of I have not sympathy for her. I don't feel that people should be able to comment on issues in which they are uninformed and expect people not to call them out. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, just not their own facts. Well when you say something that is foolish you get make fun of. You are not doing any good. You are try to convince people with real problems that they have some imaginary demons. I doing so you prevent them from seeking real help. Many here are interested in the idea of God, but nothing more. True, but it is not God. I hate people that are willfully ignorant. Even if you will never accept major scientific theories there is no reason why you should not know them. There is no reason why you should not know that dust is made of atoms, just like all matter. There is no reason why you should understand that "A monkey has never given birth to a human" does not disprove a thing. I believe that God is saddened by the fact that human do not use our greatest gift to its fullest potential, our minds. I think he is angered by that fact that some persecute, torture, kill, discriminate others all in his name. ......if of course he exists at all. As far I may return to faith. It may happen some day. Only after the Christian community pulls its collective head out of its ass and realizes what an ugly thing it has become. When "Love Thy Neighbor" is put above anything else. When educations and intelligents is once again things to be sought. |
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Today is me and my boyfriend's 1 year anniversary. 
