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Post by valsa on Sept 27, 2009 21:52:38 GMT -5
what makes these relationships sinful no matter what you did with them is the fact that they were your girlfriends. Not whether or not you engaged in anything with them.I have never heard of anything stating that there were more divorces in the bible belt but wouldn't be surprised because the devil loves braking up families and causing emotional harm on all involved. Again- says you. There is nothing that says with 100% certainty that homosexuality is a sin. Like I pointed out before, the little Bible verses you guys like to pull out can't even be agreed on, in meaning, by experts. Last time I checked, the Bible Belt led in number of divorces, teen pregnancies and STDs. The teen pregnancies and STDs are explained by the B.S. abstinence-only sex "education". However, the divorces are usually thought of as occurring in higher numbers because 1) people get married younger, which lessens the chance of a long-lasting marriage, 2) incomes are lower (which I'm sure has nothing to do with the getting-married-and/or-getting-pregnant-at-younger-ages thing), and 3) pushing young people to wait until after marriage to have sex lowers the number of couples who live together before getting married. Seeing as dating someone and living with them are two completely different experiences and, indeed, living with someone can sometimes tell you that you've made a big mistake in dating them, it's no surprise that the divorce rates would be higher with couples who haven’t been exposed to living with one another. Just an interesting note: in a survey by the Barna Research Group (which is actually a supporter of the Christian church) it was shown that divorce rates were lowest among people who identified as atheists and agnostics. Which, if atheists and agnostics aren’t protected by god and thus completely open to be invaded by the “demons” who love to break up families, seems odd. As far as polygamy is concerned it was necessary to repopulate the world. It is not necessary now and it is also against the law. And where, exactly, does it say in your Bible, “So says the Lord your God, ‘Hey guys, you can totally marry and bang a bunch of chicks for now, but don’t get too used to it ‘cause I’m gonna to make it a sin again in a couple centuries or so. Except for when I explicitly tell you to do things like marry and knock up your sister-in-law if your brother dies without doing it first. Peace out’.”? Technically, with the overpopulation we’re experiencing, it’s not really necessary for anyone to populate the world for a while. And while I do agree that polygamy is against the law, polyamory is not, which is awesome. |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Sept 27, 2009 21:55:53 GMT -5
rhoo when someone states that there may be a problem little or big i am one who wants to try to help. My qualifications are that i am an ordained minister. Ordained by God and by the church. Admirable...though I can see where someone could see it as unwarranted meddling... |
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Post by valsa on Sept 27, 2009 21:57:30 GMT -5
I understand what you mean with this. I don't actually believe in astrology, but I do think it's a lot of fun. That being said, I support anyone's right to believe what they want, as long as they aren't causing harm to others. Christians who harass and brainwash people into believing they'll go to hell for things they can't change (like homosexuality) and/or people like Nautical who could be stopping mentally ill folks from receiving the real treatment they need are causing harm. "Psychics" and astrologers who bilk gullible people out of their money are also causing harm and I wouldn't be okay with them either. But doing astrology charts for fun isn't something I'm too worried about.
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 27, 2009 21:58:36 GMT -5
Meh, that's the same thing I can get for myself from the tubes. I appreciate the good faith answer to my question, but I'll go ahead and pass. Now, I'm capable of the astronomical calculations, so if you just want to know if things are retrograde and what is in what house or whatevs and can interpret from there, I can do that. (I might need to get somewhere to tell me where the houses are, though, since the procession of the equinoxes means that while I'm "a Scorpio", the sun was not actually in the constellation of Scorpio when I was born.) Well, I won't be a jerk to you about it because you're not all up in my face, and I did ask you rather than vice versa, but in honesty I find your (and everyone's) belief in astrology about as well-supported as Nautical's belief in demons (though less ridiculous than his belief in fighting demons in bathtubs or that everyone who's ever been bullied as a child or felt rejected has ADD), and the hemming and hawing that it's inexact, things might just *look* wrong, etc. to be equally suspect for confirmation bias as his claims that people who really WANT it get healed, etc. I feel like more of a jerk for saying so because I came and kicked your sandcastle, whereas he came and kicked our sandcastle, but in the spirit of honesty and equality, I feel I need to say so. Also you seem very nice and interesting, and I like you! I understand, and ditto, I like you too :3 I can see the parallels between me and nautical, and I'll admit, until science gets around to actually trying to prove astrology, which would be kinda difficult....my belief in astrology is about as crediable as nautical's belief in the biblical Christianity, But I have to give myself a few props because there's actual logic behind astrology, and real math, and can at least be slightly proven through calculations and charts....while all Christianity has going for it is faith. I don't think tests of the efficacy of astrology would be difficult. One simple way would be to get a pretty large group of people to give their data for detailed charts, and have an expert astrologer be given those charts, plus an equal number of made up dates, times, and places of birth. Everyone gets their correct chart plus one of the bogus charts. They, and people they identify as very close to them, say which chart describes them. That would be for the description-style ones, which I presume also have some advice as well, but even everything but the description portions should be cut. And clearly ones that gave predictions could be tested more directly. If the predictions are more vague, then a similar method to the one above could be used. Give two (or more) sets of predictions to people, have them (and people close to them) say which were accurate. |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Sept 27, 2009 22:02:37 GMT -5
I smell onions...
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 27, 2009 22:03:17 GMT -5
lonelocust
i am not saying that people are ruined by past relationships at all.
what i am saying is that it affects the new ones and how the person perceives the new compared to the old and how they do not match up. i like to use my own life as an example when i can and here i can. I was with the same woman about 17 years or so and i used to be the most romantic person there was. I put everything i had into doing whatever it would take to make her the happiest in the world. Of course as some of you know it always failed. There is one time about ten years ago that she had an affair with my brother and one of the incidents involved candles. After that my romance was gone. The woman i had loved before that had all the romance i could give out and it ended there. About Ten years ago. Of course i had done some things after that but it was always after being badgered into doing it. It wasn't the same at all.
I know that after all the healing is done and when it is Gods timing i will be able to move on. I know that right now i couldn't bring myself to be romantic at any cost and when God brings me the right woman she will deserve that from me so i will have to break the soul tie and get all the healing that is needed to move on. I will need to take back the romantic part of me that she killed and destroyed.
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 27, 2009 22:05:49 GMT -5
However, the divorces are usually thought of as occurring in higher numbers because 1) people get married younger, which lessens the chance of a long-lasting marriage, Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. There is a very statistically significant correlation between getting married young and higher divorce rates. And there is CERTAINLY a direct correlation between being older and not being a virgin (and having increasing number of sex partners). While this can't logically mean that not being a virgin CAUSES a higher chance of divorce, it is demonstrably correlated, which means that being a virgin logically DOES NOT CAUSE a lower chance of divorce. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 27, 2009 22:10:48 GMT -5
Technically, with the overpopulation we’re experiencing, it’s not really necessary for anyone to populate the world for a while. And while I do agree that polygamy is against the law, polyamory is not, which is awesome. UNRELATED SECOND REPLY TO THE SAME POST It is interesting that in some states, polygamous marriage is not just non-legally-recognized, but is technically a criminal offense. However, I suspect that if it actually came up between all-of-age persons, it would go to court and be struck down as a criminal offense. That is, if three or more non-minors chose to have a wedding ceremony and refer to themselves as spouses, in some states this is actually criminal, but I think it would clearly be a freedom of expression/religion issue, so if anyone was arrested for doing so, it would be struck down as a criminal offense. This wouldn't make polygamous marriage legally recognized, but it would be interesting. As far as I know, in no state is same-sex marriage a criminal offense. That is, if two people of the same sex have a marriage ceremony and thereafter refer to themselves as spouses, it's just not legally recognized; it's not something they could theoretically by the books be arrested for. This has been a complete tangent. Again. Now back to your regularly scheduled other tangents. |
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 27, 2009 22:12:39 GMT -5
valsa
as far as atheists and agnostics why would Satan go after those who he has already deceived ? If the parents are deceived they will help deceive the kids and the divorce isn't necessary to tear them away from God and to hurt those involved.
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 27, 2009 22:25:25 GMT -5
lonelocust i am not saying that people are ruined by past relationships at all. What you said seemed semantically equivalent to exactly that to me. Yep. And for me, it makes the new ones better. I like to think that for anyone who treats it the right way, is willing to deal with difficulty and hurt in order to learn to make themselves open and able to love, and who actively uses each relationship they have to learn to love better, then each new relationship can make subsequent relationships better. It could be that it's just me, and I don't really have anything other than my past relationships to go on that it's possible, but my particular case is sufficient to prove that it does not have to affect the new ones and how they are percieved, etc. NEGATIVELY. I had one relationship which didn't teach me anything about myself or relationships other than "this is the sort of shit that is not worth putting up with and how you shouldn't let yourself be treated." For a little while, I regretted that, but when I was able to get over it, I realized that was also a valuable thing to learn even if it was less pleasant than the deep emotional insights or growths that I had experienced due to other relationships. Yeah, me too. I've had a middling-sized number of relationships. I have had sex with everyone in every relationship I've been with. All but one of these relationships have enhanced me emotionally and made me more able to give more of what I want to give and bond more closely with subsequent relationships, every one has enhanced my sense of what I want and need from subsequent relationships, and every one has enhanced me sexually. Win for me! I am deeply and sincerely sorry that you have been hurt. I believe that by projecting your negative experience - which started with what I assume to be negative parameters in the first place - you are hurting your future possible relationships, as well as encouraging other people to get into unhealthy relationships. I wish that you could take the good parts of that - like remembering what it meant to be open and vulnerable when you were actually very romantic, and remembering how that vulnerability was worth it for the enrichment that it gave your life - and take them with you, and not let the bad parts poison both your own life and future relationships and your views of other people's lives and relationships. It is so sadly ironic that I want to cry out of sheer empathy to see how you're doing exactly the opposite of your intentions - you want to break down other people's imaginary bondages, but you create your own. I don't think you should just jump on the next person you see, but if opening yourself up to the sort of hurt your received WASN'T worth it for the enrichment you got for making yourself vulnerable and letting those feelings be nurtured to the best of your ability, then it makes me very sad. You can view HER as having killed and destroyed it, or you can see HER as being the person that let you have that romanticism in the first place. You can take that memory of how it was, and instead of hiding from the pain, you can say yes, this is what happened when you were this vulnerable, and that was necessary for all of the good that you got from the relationship, and you can decide that it was worth it, and that she will in a way be important to you for that reason, and then you can move on as a more mature person who understands what vulnerability is but chooses to be vulnerable anyway, instead of someone who only makes themselves open when they don't think there's anything to fear. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 27, 2009 22:26:33 GMT -5
valsa as far as atheists and agnostics why would Satan go after those who he has already deceived ? If the parents are deceived they will help deceive the kids and the divorce isn't necessary to tear them away from God and to hurt those involved. So does that mean a happy marriage is an indication that you're doing it wrong, since if you were doing it right demons would come make you miserable? |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 27, 2009 22:28:56 GMT -5
OK, I can't read this thread any more today. I'm in super-sensitive mode, and I'm super-empathetic all the time, and I can't deal with seeing someone as obviously heartbroken as Nautical right now who has constructed a world that can't let him get something positive and bittersweet from his experiences. I'll see where we've gone again tomorrow, or maybe in a few hours if it wears off before then.
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Post by MaybeNever on Sept 27, 2009 22:43:14 GMT -5
OK, I can't read this thread any more today. I'm in super-sensitive mode, and I'm super-empathetic all the time, and I can't deal with seeing someone as obviously heartbroken as Nautical right now who has constructed a world that can't let him get something positive and bittersweet from his experiences. I'll see where we've gone again tomorrow, or maybe in a few hours if it wears off before then. Feel better, LL. I sympathize with you completely. |
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 27, 2009 22:49:39 GMT -5
lonelocust
i was not using my life as an empathy getter. i was just pointing out a worse case scenario that i could relate to. here is a lesson from our site on it that probably explains it better. i don't remember if i have sent it here or not . if not here it is. Also as far as breaking down imaginary bondages that is not so.
What is a soul tie?
Not sure what to think of the deliverance ministry?
Please take a moment to read
What the ministry of deliverance should be!
A soul tie is like a linkage in the soul realm between two people. It links their souls together, which can bring fourth both beneficial results or negative results.
The positive effect of a soul tie: In a godly marriage, God links the two together and the Bible tells us that they become one flesh. As a result of them becoming one flesh, it binds them together and they will cleave onto one another in a unique way. The purpose of this cleaving is to build a very healthy, strong and close relationship between a man and a woman.
Matthew 19:5, "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh."
Soul ties can also be found in close strong or close friendships. They are not just limited to marriage, as we can see with King David and Jonathan:
1 Samuel 18:1, "And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul."
The negative effect of a soul tie: Soul ties can also be used for the devil's advantage. Soul ties formed from sex outside of marriage causes a person to become defiled:
Genesis 34:2-3, "And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her. And his soul cleaved unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spoke kindly unto the damsel."
This is why it is so common for a person to still have 'feelings' towards an ex-lover that they have no right to be attracted to in that way. Even 20 years down the road, a person may still think of their first lover... even if he or she is across the country and has their own family, all because of a soul tie!
Demonic spirits can also take advantage of ungodly soul ties, and use them to transfer spirits between one person to another. I remember one young man I led through a deliverance; he was facing severe demonic visitations and torment all thanks to an ungodly soul tie. I led him to broke the soul tie, and the attacks stopped completely!
Ezekiel 23:17, "And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them."
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Post by valsa on Sept 27, 2009 22:54:58 GMT -5
So, you’re saying that the new slogan for marriage should be “If you want a happy marriage, become an atheist”?
Also, most atheists I personally know are open to allowing their children to decide on their own beliefs, once they’re old enough to do so properly. Once my future kids are old enough to make up their own minds critically, I’m fine with them exploring different religions. Just because many Christians (and people from other religions) indoctrinate their children to believe exactly what they believe doesn’t automatically mean atheists will do the same.
But they don’t bother using this to torment atheists because we’re already “deceived”? Nautical, you’re making it sound like the ticket to a happy life is atheism!
Nautical, I’m very sorry to hear what happened to you. My father had an affair behind my mother’s back so I abhor infidelity, to say the least. Though you don’t have to answer, because your private life is your private life, I am confused as to why you stayed with this woman for ten years after she, quite obviously, broke your heart. I do wish you luck in overcoming what is clearly some long-held trauma and moving on with your life.
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