lightmelon
Junior Member
Don't swallow the seeds! You'll asplode!
Posts: 95
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Post by lightmelon on Sept 17, 2009 16:28:00 GMT -5
"The goggles they do nothing!" PETA is BULLSHIT!(I'd link to the episode but I can't at work so here is the wiki synopsis: Offers criticism toward the animal rights movement, and particular attention to the PETA organization and its ties with the ALF, an animal liberation group, classified by the FBI as a domestic terrorist organization.) As your resident PETA and ALF (if I had the chance) member on the floor, I'd like to say, you are the bull here >:3 HA! TAKE THAT! lmao. (and just for reference, every succesful rights or liberation movement has been considered terrorism over the course of history. American Revolution, Civil War, equality for women and blacks...ect. PETA does pretty much the right thing, and I'd fucking HELP ALF rescue animals from experimental factories and such. Burn the buildings? Sure. Maybe it'll get the message across that using animals to test hairspray or whatever isn't profitable or moral. And if not, it takes them outta the action for a bit.) And I do think human digestive systems are better suited to a herbavore type of diet, but not because apes are similar to us. I just think this because in reality we exhibit the same internal systems as basic herbavores. here, read all this. I found it interesting. www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htmAnd valsa I've totally tried playing LoZ songs on there but alas, I suck balls at ocarina skillz. |
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Post by valsa on Sept 17, 2009 18:10:32 GMT -5
*grabs microphone descended from the ceiling* Alllllllright folks, we have what looks to be shaping up into one hell of a match today. In one corner is Tygerarmy- a PETA-hating atheist with (I’m going to assume) military training! In the other is Lightmelon- a animal-loving witch who can cast spells. Ready contenders? Okay... FIGHT!!!! Oooo! Tygerarmy opens with the “domestic terrorist organization” label. He’s off to a strong start today, ladies and gentlemen. But hold onto your hats folks, Lightmelon counters with a formidable “all social progress has been called ‘terrorism’” offensive. People, we are no doubt gonna see some bloodshed today! Just kidding- I don’t mind discussing the merits of animal rights activism but let’s everyone keep it civil, now. We’re not in the Flame and Burn section, after all. Lightmelon (argh! I keep wanting to type “Lightlemon”)- I’ve seen a lot of research that contradicts other, just as seemingly valid, research in regards to the carnivore vs. omnivore vs. herbivore debate. I did note the link that you provided cited Karl von Linne in the 2nd paragraph, who died in 1778, which doesn’t make me overly optimistic about the accuracy and up-to-date-ness of that particular article (though I won’t hold it against the “Humans are naturally herbivores” argument as a whole) I personally think that whatever we started out as (probably frugivores), we naturally evolved to eventually become omnivores because that helps our adaptability and survival. Think about places like the Artic and the Inuit people- their natural diet consists of little to no fruit and vegetable products, because there aren’t that many around. And yet they can still survive. Same for places that have little meat- people these typically have a vegetarian lifestyle and thrive with that as well. Basically, I think we evolved into omnivores because it allows us to survive in places that have vastly different food sources available. Also, even though it’s not at all a scientific article, this is one from a vegetarian about our biological omnivorism- www.allconsidering.com/2008/are-humans-meant-to-be-vegetarian/But, seeing as I haven't looked into the issue for a while, I'll probably go searching for some other articles to see if I can make sure I still feel that's the correct conclusion. |
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 17, 2009 22:15:47 GMT -5
valsa and all others
the reason why medication works is because the demons have won if you rely on medication rather than on God.
with that said i do have to say that i too use medication i am only human. just a couple months ago i was on life support for three days and in the hospital for two weeks. This was actually brought on by a curse from an object that someone i had ministered to had given me.( so there are two things i accepted ) as soon as the object was broken and barried and the curse was broken in prayer by my father i woke up from the coma they had me in and started getting better. i am actually in the hospital every couple of months and for long term this time was the worse with respiratory failure. the asthma is actually tied spiritually to fear of rejection. This is an issue i have not dealt with yet because for the past 17 years it was constant. I am getting a divorce at this time but my wife would be here about six months and then leave and be with someone else or a bunch of someone elses. I am finally stepping out and getting this divorce and when things settle down and the kids are in a better spot emotionally i will deal with this fear of rejection. so i am not speaking out against medicine just the constant and over long term use of it when God is there to heal.
What the devil has meant to keep us in bondage has worked for good for some. For others the side affects of the medication bondage has killed them. a slow and painful death for some. Others they have taken some medications and killed themselves. and others like one well known drug get into shoplifting and go to prison for it. others end up abusing the medicines and getting strung out just like on street drugs.
i hope this clarifies my position.
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Post by valsa on Sept 17, 2009 23:05:32 GMT -5
Nautical, I’ve very sorry to hear that, for lack of a better phrase, your life kind of sucks right now. I wish you, your wife, and your children the best in what I know can be a difficult situation.
That being said, you haven’t explained everything about the meds yet.
I think I understand what you’re saying- If your illness is caused by demons and you ease the symptoms of that illness by medication and not by looking for relief from god, those demons never leave and so you’re never truly cured.
However, I want to know what makes the medication work, if the illness is caused by demons?
OO are you saying that the demons only pretend that the medication is working to trick people into “bondage”? And if that’s the case (ie- you can have demons that don’t cause you any problems as long as you take your meds) why would you need to get healed by god. The demons aren’t doing anything and so you’re not suffering at all.
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Post by catanon on Sept 17, 2009 23:37:19 GMT -5
For my lack of a better way of putting it, and my general lack of conversational manners, I present you with this:  |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 18, 2009 0:01:35 GMT -5
lonelocust ok i have read all of your posts on this thread and have a couple comments to make. One being as you know this form of ministering is foreign to me. second when i had made the comment of your mother seeing demons it was not after going through and reading your former posts. Your first message directed at me was a DIRECT RESPONSE to me saying that my mother saw demons and used a picture of me with red eye (you know, the red eye effect that happens when flash photography reflects on the human retina, the thing that there's "red eye removal" tools on any photo processing program to remove) to show to her friends to demonstrate that I have demons. Yay, you got one right! You get one real cookie this time. My mother has major (monopolar) depression, which is successfully treated pretty much 100% with medication. My mother is mildly OCD, but I am not. I have major manic (bi-polar) depression, which is treated pretty much 100% with medication. (I think we'd had enough guessing game there.) I'll give you a half-point for that, as it's a little bit close. No trunk of a tree part, but that's sort of poetic and aesthetically pleasing in concept, so I'll bump it up from a quarter point to a half point for that. I don't have any major "false memories". What I said, and what is scientifically demonstrated, is that EVERYONE, and I do mean EVERYONE, constructs false memories. It is a thing that the human brain does. Serious false memories are quite rare, but minor false memories are just something our brain does. I couldn't tell you what my false memories are, because certainty of things being true and having really happened has no correlation to them actually having happened. This is things like you are certain you put your keys somewhere because you always do, and you will actually REMEMBER putting your keys there, even if you really forgot and accidentally left them in the bathroom. You still remember putting them on your key hook. Or if you hear lots and lots of stories from relatives all the time of that really cute thing you did when you were 5, you might remember it, even though you really don't. In fact, if your relatives were mistaken and it was actually your cousin, but you still hear the story all the time, your memories of that event where you were so cute when you were 5 will be just as vivid as if it was really you. I was correcting the other respondents who had said that they have no false memories that actually, they do. They wouldn't probably know what they are, but they are there (and are small). Sorry, no more positive guesses there. I have absolutely no idea what you are saying here. I love how you will not believe that my mother (not to mention me) does not have DID. Do you realize how incredibly suspect that makes your claims of "experience"? You're not listening to what people actually report their problems are; you are declaring what you think they are and acting (I guess you could call it) on that. And where does your super-special knowledge come from that tons of other people who share your delusions can't possibly have it? I doubt you'd think that, as you would probably just believe that they were real. Spin again. You just don't listen, do you? My mother does not hallucinate people. You keep explaining something that I've repeatedly negated but that you keep insisting is there. Again, you can't possibly have data from experience because you don't listen to what you are told. You tell people what is there (and I'm sure that people who are unhinged enough and WANT to believe you will start constructing what you tell them is there, even start remembering that it was there before you told them it was; see my paragraph about false memories). Sorry, no fountains. Also we've gotten far outside of the mold where i was able to fit something to your rooms talk. I assumed that was the symbolism you were going for. Notice how you took something that seemed almost like a confirmation of your shots in the dark, then you're pushing the issue with further detail? Cold-reading technique. (But yes, you don't need to tell me you're not doing it; I fully believe you don't think you are.) I like rainbows, and blue. Are there unicorns? Man, I'd be bummed if my scars disappeared. It was so difficult to get them, and they're always disappearing. Ah, but see, that's a terrible analogy for what is going on. I haven't called you saying I'm lost and asking you how to get out. You have called me, told me I'm lost, heard me say "nope, actually, I'm almost exactly where I want to be. There's some other places I'd like to go, and I know how to get there but need to get up the gumption to start walking", and then you say "No no! You are lost! I know where you are, and it is totally lost!" and I say "Well if you know where I am, then describe it to me, to prove to me that you know where I am. Then if you do know where I am, we can discuss whether or not I'm lost" and then you say "Well YOU'RE the one that's there! You have to tell me where you are so I can get you out, because you're lost" and I say "... sure." Everything you've done indicates that your "experience" comes from telling people what you want to think they see, and them confirming it, and you taking that as evidence that you were right. You clearly don't listen silently without telling people what there should be, because you've demonstrated being unable to do that, repeatedly, in this thread. There's a big difference in asking 1000 people what they see and them saying "I see demons raping me with tree trunk tentacles, and I see rooms that I am lost in and maybe a fountain", and you saying "Do you see demons attacking you? Do you see rooms? Can you find a fountain?" and them saying "yes". The more they want to believe you because they want you to help them because they want help, the more they will believe that what you tell them IS what you see. You have no such luxury with me, and you are wrong about what you want me to see and what you want my mother to have seen. This again is meaningless in the context of the thing I was trying to fit to your "rooms" talk. You continue to earn no more points for getting anything right. Sorry, I'm an atheist and a skeptic. I don't believe in the astral plain. Once again, inapplicable. Maybe in another message or two I will reveal what my "rooms" are to which your instructions are so very inapplicable. [/quote] I want to apologize for pushing the mom thing i understand you haven't forgiven her and it is hard. Please forgive me.[/quote] I forgive you. And note I said nothing about forgiveness or lack thereof about my mom. What I have said is that I have given up on her turning away from justifying her delusions with religion, so I don't try anymore to talk to her about that. However, I absolutely will not facilitate it or make it worse. Putting her in touch with you would be cruel in my morality as it would be furthering and facilitating her delusions. I hope you have a nice time at the fair. Don't eat any deep-fried moonpies, because that is nasty. |
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 18, 2009 0:13:12 GMT -5
My problem with PETA (I'm not really knowledgeable about ALF) is that they are anti-pet and anti-feral-animal-population-control. It's certainly not every PETA member, but there have been organized PETA activisms against people keeping pets and 3 instances that I am aware of of PETA euthanizing animals rather than having them be pets. I assume this is based on some idea that being a pet is like slavery? I do not really know. I don't think this is an across-the-board thing with PETA (and I'm sure the euthanizing thing isn't), but it makes me really sore about PETA as an organization.
Most primates, and all non-human apes are vegetarian or mostly vegetarian with a small meat content to their diet. (Chimps will as mentioned eat small amounts of meat, including smaller monkeys, etc.) My advice to people other than myself who want to eat healthy but don't have a particular reason to want to be a vegetarian is to eat poultry or fish twice a week and otherwise be vegetarian. (Super-duper lean red meat is also acceptable, but really not every week.) Something like 6 ounce of meat a week is probably just as good for you as being a vegetarian. While a vegetarian diet has been shown in many studies to be healthier than an average American omnivore diet, if you compare it to a very low-meat omnivore diet, it's about the same.
Our intestines, like that of other apes and most other monkeys, are much more like herbivore than carnivore intestines. This is usually the point from which arguments that we should be herbivores comes, and it is true, though our closest ancestors are lightly omnivorous.
Incidentally, baboons (and possibly some others of which I am unaware) are a big exception to the primate mostly-vegetarian rule. They eat meat like crazy. Also they are scary as fuck. And adorable.
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 18, 2009 0:18:19 GMT -5
Oh, and about the sociopath thing - I would consider them missing a major portion of sentience, but again it's not a binary switch. If a 1 is completely in the set of sentient beings, an average one-year-old might be a .2, and an African Grey parrot might be a .5, and a sociopath might be a .9. Really once you get into indications that you're somewhat inside that sentient set, I feel like you are a morally relevant subject. However, even if a sociopath has MORE of the qualities of sentience than a baby or a parrot, given the need to shoot one of the three, I'd probably take the sociopath. At that point I'm making a group-based morality decision rather than an individual-based one. The baby and the parrot might make life for the rest of sentient beings better. The sociopath probably won't.
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Post by nautical999 on Sept 18, 2009 7:42:57 GMT -5
lonelocust
so lets get to the part where you say what the both of you see including what your mother sees on you. and take all the points away that is just what you told me in your previous posts. look back. i figured with you it was either the depression or the ocd you had
valsa
will get back to you later i gotta get to work
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Post by lonelocust on Sept 18, 2009 8:23:31 GMT -5
Ah Nautical, now you are entirely changing the game entirely. First it was "If i could tell you what your mother sees and hears would you believe it isn't a mental illness but a demonic presence?" (and, unsurprisingly, you never answering my repeated question of if you were wrong, would you believe it was mental illness and not demons) followed by an impressive train of you being completely unable to tell me what my mother sees and hears.
Given your complete and utter failure plus your disrespect of anything and everything I have told you including contradicting me repeatedly about what I know and what you don't (because you're "not psychic"), and your lack of even enough respect to answer my points, why should I share with you anything at all? I don't think I'm lost. You think I'm lost.
So, considering that you are a crazy man who wants to tell me I'm trapped in such horrible darkness and bondage that I don't even know about, why do you think I would proceed? Why would there be a part where I tell you things when you failed the part where you tell me things?
Here's a new deal - I bet I can tell you a lot more about yourself than you were able to tell me. Specific, identifying information even. If I can tell you about you, then you give me the respect of answering the questions I have posed. And then, if you do that, then I will answer your questions. Also you can guess where I got my information - I bet you'll guess demons! - and then I'll let you know for realz.
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Post by valsa on Sept 18, 2009 12:33:51 GMT -5
My problem with PETA (I'm not really knowledgeable about ALF) is that they are anti-pet and anti-feral-animal-population-control. It's certainly not every PETA member, but there have been organized PETA activisms against people keeping pets and 3 instances that I am aware of of PETA euthanizing animals rather than having them be pets. I took a look at PETA’s website (I was half expecting that, when I clicked on the main page, a little person was going to pop out of my computer screen and throw paint on me or something) The anti-pet thing is definitely not part of the main PETA ideology. They have a FAQ section about pets- www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.aspThey basically say: if you have a pet- treat it well, get it fixed, and don’t buy from breeders or pet stores. The feral cat thing is a little more iffy. Here- www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=120 they give tips on how to manage a feral cat colony. However, their official stance seems to be that if you’re just catching a feral cat to fix it, then drop it off and never have anything to do with it again (ie- not actively managing a feral cat colony) then euthanasia is preferable. I don’t really agree with that, but I can see how they come about to it. I think PETA, overall, does good work. They have a few beliefs or practices that I don’t agree with but it seems like the worst of their bad reputation comes from actions taken by fanatic fringe groups (not unlike certain religions…) ALF, on the other hand, though I don’t know much about it, is fucking crazy My advice to people other than myself who want to eat healthy but don't have a particular reason to want to be a vegetarian is to eat poultry or fish twice a week and otherwise be vegetarian. This is pretty much my stance. People overall, especially Americans, eat waaaaaaaay more meat than we need to and is healthy. All things in moderation and all that. Incidentally, baboons (and possibly some others of which I am unaware) are a big exception to the primate mostly-vegetarian rule. They eat meat like crazy. Also they are scary as fuck. And adorable. ... ... ... Yeah, I think I’d have ended that paragraph at “scary as fuck”, thank you. |
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Post by Bezron on Sept 18, 2009 12:59:09 GMT -5
They basically say: if you have a pet- treat it well, get it fixed, and don’t buy from breeders or pet stores. See, this, in particular, can be problematic. Where do you then get your pets? I think what they are getting at is to not buy from anyone who is doing it to make money...except that selective breeding is often the best way to keep the breed healthy. And selective breeders are generally using it as their main source of income. Your average "backyard" breeder (i.e. ones who spit out a litter or two to capitalize on breed popularity) doesn't give two shits about breeding out aggressiveness or genetic fallacies (bloat and twist in large breeds, for example). All they care about is cranking out a litter to sell them off for $$. The best place to get your dog IS from a breeder, but a reputable breeder that actually cares about the dogs/breeds. I recently lost a Great Dane to bloat (and still miss her terribly). We replaced her with a Golden Doodle from a breeder who, while not claiming to be super awesome, did show us the parents, and assured us that she only breeds one litter per year (this was the fourth year, iirc). For the most part, that dog is cool, hearty, and healthy. He does have some dominance issues, but nothing major. However, she also told us that she averages $1500/dog, and 6-9 in a litter. When we get our next large breed in a year, we will be going with the Dane breeder or Mastiff breeder (they are affiliated, but different people) in the area, because I have seen those people at 2 local dog parks, on multiple occasions, socializing and playing with their "breed-stock"...because even though both have plenty of land for the dogs, they love them and consider them pets. Does that make sense? (AC may come and kick my ass again, but I'm really only down on puppy mills) |
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Post by Rime on Sept 18, 2009 13:05:54 GMT -5
Lightmelon, you're right, we're not cats, our digestive tracts sit right in the middle as far as comparing herbivores and carnivores. Humans can't overeat meat without feeling sick unless you're an Innu. However, as a former veganazi, I can say that not everyone thrives on being vegan.
And no, I don't pig out on pork chops and hamburger from the grocery store. If I don't know who raised my meat and my dairy, I don't eat it.
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Post by Rime on Sept 18, 2009 13:11:15 GMT -5
with that said i do have to say that i too use medication i am only human. just a couple months ago i was on life support for three days and in the hospital for two weeks. This was actually brought on by a curse from an object that someone i had ministered to had given me.( so there are two things i accepted ) as soon as the object was broken and barried and the curse was broken in prayer by my father i woke up from the coma they had me in and started getting better. i am actually in the hospital every couple of months and for long term this time was the worse with respiratory failure. the asthma is actually tied spiritually to fear of rejection. Asthma is the result of a curse? And here I thought that was a result of diet and air quality. Now we can just search for the right demon and pray it awai!! |
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Post by valsa on Sept 18, 2009 13:13:34 GMT -5
See, this, in particular, can be problematic. Where do you then get your pets? I can see what you mean about reputable vs. unreputable breeders. However, I think PETA's coming from a stance that you should always adopt from animal shelters and/or humane societies. If you're looking at the world as if all dogs (or cats) are equal, then breeders are basically allowing (and encouraging) their animals to have puppies when there are already many animals that need a good home that're alive already. However, most people don't look at the world like all dogs/cats are equal. They want pure-breeds and they want animals who've been bred with specific traits in mind, etc. I, personally, am an advocate for adopting only from animal shelters and humane societies. You can find animals from pretty much any breed or with any personality/temperament/whatever you're looking for, it's just a whole hell of a lot more time consuming than popping into your local breeder that specializes in what you want. I think it's worth it and all five of my cats have either come from the shelter (3) or just showed up on my doorstep, insisting that they belonged to me (2) |
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