|
Post by ironbite on Apr 7, 2009 1:47:01 GMT -5
*stands up and applaudes the Lady Renae*
|
|
|
Post by Mira on Apr 7, 2009 1:50:52 GMT -5
This guy totally missed the point (to laugh at idiot bigots.) I used to love this site back when I was a Christian still (though I was probably never a True Christian™)
|
|
|
Post by Redhunter on Apr 7, 2009 2:15:13 GMT -5
I just wanted to say, as a Christian, I feel sorry for you That didn’t take long for him to take his lofty horse out for a spin, did it? As an atheist, I feel sorry for YOU. The difference is, I’m not the arrogant prick that feels the need to track people down and tell them that they are wrong for what they do and that they should do what I do. Typically, that takes the arrogance of a religion. because there is so much hate on this site. I don’t hate anyone but those who lie, kill, rape, molest, mortgage our resources and future, despots, dictators, genocidal maniacs etc. It takes a lot for me to truly hate someone or something, and as much as some religionists might like to imagine that they are being hated because of their god, this is not the case. And even when I hate someone, I only attack his or her actions with words, the same way for instance that this christian is attacking us.
So yeah, this place is a helluva lot more tolerant than the gay and “slut” hating aspects of many religions. Nobody here shoots doctors or starts holy wars or issues fatwas. I would suggest that most of the "Fundies" you have posted blogs on are not authentic Christians, or if they are actually being very sinful in the submissions you have found. Convenient. I don’t need the weirdest of the weird to tell me christianity is full of nutcases. The bible itself is full of psychotic characters with god’s full blessing who rape and maim and slaughter children and women and old people and even chop up their animals and burn their homes to the ground. The bible god is a classic representation of man’s attributes magnified, complete with all the petty jealousy and spite and anger you can eat. There is nobody on this site that comes close to the monstrosity that was the bible’s king david.
So no way dude, the very heart of your sacred book is stories of megalomaniacal conquerors that used their “love of god” as an excuse to commit genocide. THAT’S whom your “authentic” christians revere. Those who are simply speaking the truth of the Bible are taken out of context and made to look intolerant rather than showing the full picture. Oh, I see. Our fundies quotes are simply taken out of context, ah. That’s why all links are provided so that the reader can go back and see exactly what the context was? Yeah, really sneaky of us to go and offer up all the information one needs to make an informed and rational decision about something. I suppose if you use the bible as a gauge, what we do here is out of the ordinary. If you want to attack God, attack what the Bible says about Him and you - people are flawed. That’s not a complete sentence.
As a christian you don’t believe in the hindu gods and therefore someone can and does say the exact same thing about you. You don’t believe in Vishnu or Thor or Kali. But you have just decided, on faith, that your god IS real. You have the exact same evidence, or more accurately the lack of evidence, as the next religion. Yet, both yours and the next religion are convinced that they are right and the others are wrong.
The sad thing is that most religionists don’t see the hypocrisy in that. The happy thing is that most atheists do.
And it has nothing to do with “attacking” and as far as that goes, I don’t believe your god exists so I’m “attacking” the often fallacious and specious facets of being absolutely sure about the existence of something that is quite admittedly, just really strong wishful thinking.
YOU claim a god exists. My not believing your story is not me “attacking” you, that is what you chose to see it as. You see anger at our skepticism because you are skeptical yourself. You see that we are not just rabid dogs who are “rebelling” to spite your imaginary deity. You probably don’t believe in other gods (or bigfoot, nessie, leprechauns, fairies, unicorns, ogres, sea-monsters, yeti, boogeymen, gremlins, etc.) because as other christians have told me, you “just know” they don’t exist. Well, that’s exactly how I feel, only I include yours in that list of things that I find, have no credence to them. Your website shows the same thing that the Bible does - we are lost, evil, sinful people who need a saviour - especially Christians - they recognise that they need a saviour! You are wrong. this website shows the arrogance that many people have and they justify their behaviour with “god’s blessing”.
Atheists don’t make claims that they are the only ones who have access to a super-powerful but invisible and seemingly impotent god who listens only to them.
You think you need a saviour because you refuse to accept realities and you are too scared or lazy to find your own way.
So far you have assumed that “sin” and “evil” are not only real but they affect everyone, and you have unreasonably decided your god exist and no other god does and that not only have you chosen the one right god, but this god is going to save you from this sin and evil that only you and your imaginary friend say exist.
What this website shows me is the insanity that folks will convince themselves is reality. I think you may not know what real Christianity is. More arrogance, as we don’t “really” know but YOU do. That upsets me - you don't have to keep reading if you don't want to, but here goes: Well, you took time out of your day to look your nose down at us, the least I can do is rebut your haughty claims and attitude. the Bible teaches that we are all sinners, no one is perfect (especially not people who call themselves Christians). Lots of religions say a lot of things, so what?
And I don’t know of anyone who calls themselves perfect. The only ones I hear who speak of perfection are christians. now you’ve taken this idea of perfection, that only christians or other religionists believe exists, and introduce it here as if you are telling us something we don’t know. God created us for a relationship with Him, and yet we substitute that for a life of living our own way, without Him - we make ourselves 'God' of our lives. You have nothing to base any of that on. You bible says that, and some other religious texts say something else. There is not one reason to think that you have some information that someone else doesn’t also claim. Because He is totally good and just, he cannot allow this to go unpunished, and so death and hell are the punishment for our rebellion. The simple fact that you don’t see a problem with god being “totally good and just” and also sending us to death and eternal hellfire punishment is what makes your arrogance simply hilarious. You can’t see the hypocrisy in a “just” god making people in “his image” and then claiming he loves us so much that he would torture us forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever…
You find that “just”? That is absolutely monstrous. But it doesn't end there - God loves us so much that He sent his perfect son Jesus into the world to die for us - to take the punishment that we deserve. God made us flawed and then “saved” us from the punishment we deserve… Uh…
Oh, I see. If I make a souffle and it falls, it is the souffle’s fault and I should make it “take the punishment (it) deserve(s)”? The fact that you see this as acceptable is what makes your other words so much weaker. If we trust in the substitute that Jesus made for us, we can be restored to God and live for Him. We will continue to sin and displease God, as we aren't perfect, but if we recognise sin for what it is, try and remove it from our lives, and trust that Jesus died for us, we will be saved. If I believe, for no reason above the reasons to believe in the next god, that this jesus exists, and god exists and that sin exists and that god sent jesus to make up for the sin he sent then the sin will go away and we can see god and jesus for the first time ever, but if I don’t believe (reasonably) that this story is true, this god whom I would never know till he sent me to hell will punish me forever?
How do you know go crazy from the illogicality of that thinking? So it doesn't matter if you are gay or straight, transgender or bisexual, atheist, muslim or christian, no one is righteous, everyone is a sinner and needs God's forgiveness. Your imaginary god “says” sin exists and that only he can save you from it. creating a “problem” and then selling a “solution” to it. Classic con swindle. If you want to attack Christianity talk to people who know what they're talking about. Trouble is, your “authentic christians” are not required to actually know anything. They only have to say, “I believe that jesus is my lord and saviour” and that’s the extent of it. Much of christianity is simply, “the bible says this” and that’s it. And believe me Mr. Man, I’ve spoken to a few christians who all go around saying that they know lots about the bible and god and jesus and salvation etc., but when it comes down to it, they “don’t have all the answers”. THEN I should talk to so-and-so, and THEN “I’m not as well versed in scripture as he is…” and THEN, “Well, god works in mysterious ways, you’ll have to ask him that one day” and the like come spilling forth. Or I’m accused of mocking, or going out of my way to see it “wrong” or something to that affect.
Everyone SAYS they know shit, but when it comes down to it; they all fall short of the glory of reality.Or argue against what the Bible teaches. I'd be an atheist too if I thought that Christianity was what you put on your website. We quote actual christians actual words and we quote the bible. The bible teaches a lot of messed up things. We can go all night dissecting that one.
Way to sell us all short. So we are all too stupid to come to the conclusion that religion is bullshit on our own? We have to use some excuse like a couple of nutty fundies in order to come to that conclusion? Nice. Unlike most christians, most atheists spend a lot of time coming to that stance. Many a christian has a near death experience or mental breakdown or night in jail or drunken depressive episode and “finds jesus”.
Nobody is christian and one day sees some crazy christian and then just says, “That’s it! I was looking for an excuse to go on a kill crazy rampage, now I can finally do it! thanks weird priest for giving me such and easy out!”
That’s frankly insulting. It’s worse considering it is a trait of the christians and religionists to jump onto that ship in an afternoon. I'm not disagreeing with everything the Christians have said on your site - I'm just saying that it's not an adequate representation of what the Bible says on these things, and they show examples of how Christians are often unloving and wrong - just like all mankind is. You spend half of your posts saying all christians are evil and sinful and need to be saved because they are ravaged by sin and the other half defending the words of the craziest fundies and then saying that they aren’t representative of christianity. Do YOU know where you stand on this issue? Because you’re all over the place.You must be kidding yourself if you think you are arguing theology. If I were arguing FOR it then I agree, that WOULD be kidding myself. Fortunately sanity has prevailed and I no longer feel the need to believe in the ridiculous. If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to contact me at this address. In Love, Andrew You’re in love with Andrew? Well, you DID say it doesn’t matter if one is gay.
|
|
|
Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 2:17:07 GMT -5
I just don't have enough exalts for this page, so if I miss you, I'm sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Redhunter on Apr 7, 2009 2:21:31 GMT -5
He lost me after "I think you may not know what real Christianity is." EVERY fundie and many non-fundies assumes that if you have a problem with Christians or Christianity, it must be because you're just ignorant of what "real" Christianity is (the funny part is, each sect thinks theirs is the "real" Christianity and all the other one are giving us non-Christians the wrong idea). And then of course, the email goes on to parrot the same "everyone's a sinner, blah blah blah" diatribe we've all heard a million times. Nothing new here. It's not even original enough to be funny. Still, your first "love" letter is a pretty cool milestone. Exactly. It smacks of arrogance right out the gate and assumes that all he says is correct and right. That's what gets me; who is he to say that he "just knows" that he got the right one? EVERY religion thinks they got the right one. If I assume I am 100% on everything I do, it will appear that I'm right all the time, but that is a pretty fucking flawed premise. Even if I thought I was the world's best driver, that doesn't mean I might not still have an accident, only in this christian world he is coming from, he actually believes that he will no longer have accidents if he holds that title. It's incredibly dangerous thinking, if it can be called that at all, and it can't help but ruin anything that comes from it. It's funny how christianity itself is just like that bible story about the house built on sand instead of bedrock. The entire structure of christianity is already so weak and so imagined and so sketchy and so far fetched and then on top of it you "just believe" the rest of that building is even there!
|
|
|
Post by Redhunter on Apr 7, 2009 2:23:30 GMT -5
It's not exactly fundie, which is one of the reasons it actually interests me. But this chunk: Is what always gets me. Sounds like an abusive parent more than a loving god. Clean your room like I told you or die and burn in hell. I'm far less than impressed with that concept. Then we get to this: So god loves us to kill someone, and keep killing us. But now we get to go to heaven if we do nothing but worship him and follow his rules. Again, sounds pretty damn abusive to me. But that said, I do have to agree we aren't aruging theology all that often around here(Typically mormon theology if anything), we're mostly pointing and laughing. Which given the source material, is about right. I'm going to go read some normal bob responses and see if I can cook up something other than a few bad jokes at his expense, something along the lines of an acutal arugment. I have something budding, it's just not quite moving yet. I for one appreciate this type of conversation. I love that we can and do talk about any and everything around here, but some more theological shtuff would we nice.
|
|
|
Post by Distind on Apr 7, 2009 5:50:37 GMT -5
3)Can we plz get a hate mail section? Or "love" mail section, whatever you want to call it. I was just thinking that. I'm going to collect them till I get enough to be worth posting. This one being the first, seemed worthy of at least a forum post.
|
|
|
Post by dantesvirgil on Apr 7, 2009 8:53:23 GMT -5
Gotta love the No True Christian fallacy that always comes out in conversations like that. It's the fundie disclaimer: Please disregard the freak shows on the main page...they aren't really representative of us...except all the parts we agree with, like, no gay rights, evil-ution, atheists being devil worshippers, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Aqualung on Apr 7, 2009 12:56:33 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread, but this part doesn't make any sense to me: So, did nobody go to heaven before Jesus, even if they did worship God? Because if Jesus died for All mankind's sins but God STILL punishes people by sending them to hell then Jesus' death was completely pointless. Yes?
|
|
|
Post by MozMode on Apr 7, 2009 14:14:35 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread, but this part doesn't make any sense to me: So, did nobody go to heaven before Jesus, even if they did worship God? Because if Jesus died for All mankind's sins but God STILL punishes people by sending them to hell then Jesus' death was completely pointless. Yes? Yes well they'll use the whole "well Jebus died for OUR sins, but definitely not gays/Atheists/Muslims/devil worshippers sins', eh?" You have to be saved before Jebus' death applies to you.
|
|
|
Post by Old Viking on Apr 7, 2009 14:24:17 GMT -5
Hats off to Lady Renae and Redhunter. There's nothing quite so annoying as being lectured by a moron.
|
|
|
Post by kiwiandrew on Apr 7, 2009 20:59:33 GMT -5
EVERY fundie and many non-fundies assumes that if you have a problem with Christians or Christianity, it must be because you're just ignorant of what "real" Christianity is (the funny part is, each sect thinks theirs is the "real" Christianity and all the other one are giving us non-Christians the wrong idea). And then of course, the email goes on to parrot the same "everyone's a sinner, blah blah blah" diatribe we've all heard a million times. There are a lot of people who think they believe in the true religion. That's why I said that instead of attacking weak, flawed people - look at what the bible says if you want to argue against Christianity. How do you know which "fundie" is the "real" christian - match what they say with what the bible says. There's no other document to base our faith on. There are things in the Bible that can be debated, but what it says about salvation is pretty plain. Read the book of Romans - its a good summary. In Love, KiwiAndrew.
|
|
|
Post by kiwiandrew on Apr 7, 2009 21:09:49 GMT -5
While they left out the "be a good person" part and replaced it with trusting Jeus, it read a lot like something my grandma would say. Being a good person isn't what saves christians. Otherwise no one would have a hope of getting to heaven. Of course if you truly trust Jesus, you would recognise sin for what it is and try to avoid it but christianity is about admitting your need of salvation, not earning it. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." James 2:18 In love, KiwiAndrew
|
|
|
Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 21:21:58 GMT -5
What are you trying to say?
Do works count or not? Because the only two Christians I can stand actually believe very strongly in works.
|
|
|
Post by kiwiandrew on Apr 7, 2009 21:38:27 GMT -5
But this chunk: Is what always gets me. Sounds like an abusive parent more than a loving god. Clean your room like I told you or die and burn in hell. I'm far less than impressed with that concept. Then we get to this: So god loves us to kill someone, and keep killing us. But now we get to go to heaven if we do nothing but worship him and follow his rules. Again, sounds pretty damn abusive to me. You have good points here – I can see how God seems pretty abusive from your perspective. But there have been many biblical scholars who have grappled the same concept. I’m no expert but I’ll try and summarise the way I reconcile the ideas. One needs to understand justice and goodness to see why God would be trustworthy… my head’s a little clouded at the moment but I’ll try a sequence of logic using the arguments of christianity… 1. Does injustice exist? Yes - all over the place. 2. Why does injustice exist? Humanity’s rebellion against God’s just ways – love one another, do not murder, do not steal etc etc. 3. Is God Just? Yes, totally 4. How then can could he tolerate this injustice? To remain just, and good, God can’t allow evil to exist unpunished. That’s right, there’s certain things that God can’t do – otherwise he would cease to be God. He can’t do something that contradicts his character. “Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong” Habbakkuk 1:13 5. So why doesn’t he just wipe out all the evil if he is so powerful and so good? Patience. God does not wish anyone to perish but all to come to know him. He does promise all throughout the Bible (old and new testaments) that he will come and judge the world. He will restore everything to it’s rightful place – the evil will be punished. “He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9 6. So when we get to heaven with no evil we’ll just sit and worship him forever? Well yes – but we won’t worship because he forces us to, we’ll worship because we will see him in all his glory and goodness and desire nothing else but to see him worshipped. There are other promises in heaven, we can’t fathom the beauty of it because we see worshipping God as a chore. Imagine if for eternity you got to do exactly what you wanted without hindrance or difficulty. Not even the most godly Christian can desire heaven that badly – it’s only coz we don’t recognise God for who he is. I encourage you to read 2 Peter chapter 3 and the book of Habakkuk: www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=68&chapter=3&version=31&context=chapterThat’s all I’ve got for now… more soon. Thanks for reading. In love, KiwiAndrew.
|
|