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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 24, 2011 18:59:54 GMT -5
Does this mean calling the child "it" is accurate? What else do you use if not "he or "she"? he/she, his/her, zie, hir... |
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Post by dakotabob on May 24, 2011 19:14:24 GMT -5
"So, is your child a boy or a girl?"
"STOP TRYING TO FORCE MY CHILD INTO PREDETERMINED ROLES MAAAAAAAAAAAN"
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Post by Thejebusfire on May 24, 2011 19:33:27 GMT -5
I'm more concerned about the unschooling bullshit. This. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on May 24, 2011 19:49:42 GMT -5
Eh...if (IF, I can't make that a big enough IF) I ever raise a child, I'd probably be really mindful of letting my child know that whatever zie turns out to be, I will always love zir. NOT a big fan of unschooling; that's basically what was done with me, and I've suffered for it. I'm all for letting children learn in their own styles and time frames, within reason, but you're not going to learn algebra by osmosis.
And for some reason, thanks to Magnizeal, I see myself answering a question everyday from the kid. "Mommy, are you a girl?" "Nah, I'm a cat." "Oh...can I be a bunny?" "Eh, why not."
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Post by Magnizeal on May 24, 2011 20:50:21 GMT -5
Eh...if (IF, I can't make that a big enough IF) I ever raise a child, I'd probably be really mindful of letting my child know that whatever zie turns out to be, I will always love zir. NOT a big fan of unschooling; that's basically what was done with me, and I've suffered for it. I'm all for letting children learn in their own styles and time frames, within reason, but you're not going to learn algebra by osmosis. And for some reason, thanks to Magnizeal, I see myself answering a question everyday from the kid. "Mommy, are you a girl?" "Nah, I'm a cat." "Oh...can I be a bunny?" "Eh, why not." Meep! Yay! I have inspired someone! Sorta. And my two cents, I like the idea, but the execution is going to hurt the kid. I doubt they're using the neologism pronouns like zie or hir or any or the other 14 or so on Wiki, which means they're avoiding pronouns and/or using 'it'. Not good. Also, unschooling. Fuck you. Never seems like a good idea. |
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Post by m52nickerson on May 24, 2011 21:54:43 GMT -5
I think there is much more of a chance to do harm here then good. From the story the child's sex is known by the parents. For most people their sex matches their gender. So unless the child is trans-gender or non-gender (sorry forgot the term) this may just cause unnecessary confusion. The child is going to see boys and girls everywhere else and sooner or later will ask the question, "what I'm I."
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Post by Vene on May 24, 2011 22:03:29 GMT -5
I think there is much more of a chance to do harm here then good. From the story the child's sex is known by the parents. For most people their sex matches their gender. So unless the child is trans-gender or non-gender (sorry forgot the term) this may just cause unnecessary confusion. The child is going to see boys and girls everywhere else and sooner or later will ask the question, "what I'm I." It said in the article that the siblings know too, the child will know. It's other people that won't know unless the kid says zir gender. |
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Post by m52nickerson on May 24, 2011 22:21:54 GMT -5
It said in the article that the siblings know too, the child will know. It's other people that won't know unless the kid says zir gender. So ultimately it is about letting the child choose clothing and styles based on what they like, instead of what sex they are. OK, I mean I let my boys paint their toe nails. It does sound like the other boy is having a bit of a hard time because of the way he is dressing. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on May 24, 2011 23:17:48 GMT -5
Homeschooling I'm okay with.
Unschooling is a red flag that needs to be addressed.
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Post by A Reasonable Rat on May 24, 2011 23:46:51 GMT -5
I think if it's done right it might be a good way to let the child spend their formative years. I'd let the child know what they are if they ask, and basically just not make it obvious to other people. But I wouldn't push it past about 5. Once they're going into school they should have a gender just to fit in and form normal social skills.
People tend to rush in with the sanctity of human dignity and an almost religious reverence for children and babies... but if experiments like this were never done, we wouldn't learn much about ourselves.
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Post by Oriet on May 24, 2011 23:58:44 GMT -5
It's one thing to drastically reduce the impact of gender roles, it's something entirely different to make it a verboten topic. This will be especially hard as the child grows up as ze is exposed to the gender roles within society, including their relatives, and realise that not only does ze don't know what ze is, others don't know how to react to zir. It really sucks being outcast from society, especially when you don't know what is different about you from others.
One can easily raise a child with that child knowing about gender roles, the differences between the sexes, and still giving them plenty of freedom to decide how they wish to express their gender and what they identify with. This can easily be done by letting them make choices on clothing and toys, ensuring them that it's perfectly fine to break gender role norms, and encouraging them to break gender roles from time to time so they can learn through experience what works for them. Making it a complete unknown does not seem like it will accomplish that, but rather will just confuse them.
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Post by wmdkitty on May 25, 2011 1:17:48 GMT -5
I'm reserving judgment until we see how this plays out. I do think it's an interesting experiment, and, I dunno, there's just so much we don't know about how/why gender identity forms, or what it's based on, that this is really new territory.
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Post by sylvana on May 25, 2011 1:44:34 GMT -5
To me it sounds more like the parents are trying to give the finger to society than actually doing an experiment. the child in question will quickly learn which sex it is unless the parents somehow manage to keep the child completely isolated with regards to human sexuality. Which, of course, would include the child never seeing either parents sexual characteristics.
I suppose as an experiment is holds some merit, however, I feel that the results expected from this are full of holes and the possibility to do harm to the child is moderate. I guess we can only wait and see.
Oh and the unschooling thing is a huge problem.
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Post by Vene on May 25, 2011 6:32:03 GMT -5
I think if it's done right it might be a good way to let the child spend their formative years. I'd let the child know what they are if they ask, and basically just not make it obvious to other people. But I wouldn't push it past about 5. Once they're going into school they should have a gender just to fit in and form normal social skills. People tend to rush in with the sanctity of human dignity and an almost religious reverence for children and babies... but if experiments like this were never done, we wouldn't learn much about ourselves. The goddamn kid knows zir own gender and sex, the immediate family just isn't telling other people. |
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Post by Kit Walker on May 25, 2011 8:29:44 GMT -5
What troubles me most is that they kept saying they were letting the child "choose". I know what they meant but I would argue that one of the largest stumbling blocks in the path of getting recognition for the rights of the non-heteronormatives of the world is the mistaken belief that that it is a choice or lifestyle.
It bugs me when people trying to fight a problem from one angle end up reinforcing another angle.
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