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Post by Smurfette Principle on Jun 21, 2011 23:30:17 GMT -5
I'd like to point out that, even if he's reasonably frustrated, etc., he loses all credibility and sympathy when he advocates using Molotov cocktails on courthouses and blames all his woes, not on his wife, but on the eeeeevil feminist movement. Yeeeaahhhh... that was one of the parts I consider to be batfuck insane. Not advocating THAT part of it in any way, shape or form. No, I'm not saying you are, don't worry. Just saying that he's not exactly the best case for the men's rights movement. Also, re: your anecdote: yeah, people make shit up. That doesn't mean that all people make shit up. In fact, a small minority poison the majority of innocent cases. Two things before I go to bed: 1) all cases should be judged on a case-by-case basis without going for stereotypes on either side, and 2) we wouldn't have these laws biased in favor of women if they weren't compensating for centuries of laws biased in favor of men. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm just that there's a reason for it. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jun 21, 2011 23:37:19 GMT -5
@nightangel: My grandfather once whipped my mother's ass for "lying" about having a migraine. He also whipped her ass for daring to react to her stupid cousin pinching her in the middle of sermon; he used a butterfly shaped flyswatter on her, and left welts that lasted for a month. When she was bedridden with rheumatoid arthritis and her crafty cat kept sliding the little window open in order to sneak in and cuddle with her, he told her that if she could move enough to let the cat in (mind you, the cat left the window open) then she could damn well do her chores. On their goddamned farm.
And my mom idolizes him, saying that he was a terrific father, a wonderful man. So pardon my skepticism over abuse being a-okay just because you can look back and laugh, especially when it involves smacking around a goddamned 4-year-old.
Child abuse =/= proper discipline. There's nearly always a BETTER way to deal with things that doesn't lead to physical trauma and your child being pants-pissing terrified of you.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Jun 22, 2011 0:06:00 GMT -5
My grandfather beat my mother with a heavy belt that had a nice big belt buckle so hard that her back developed cysts on it . Why? Because she was protecting her sister from the same treatment but worse.
There's a reason my parents didn't hit me in any way shape or form. And it wasn't just because they could have paralyzed me if they hit a certain spot in my ass.
Child abuse is not discipline. And for anyone who thinks that even one lash to the back is discipline needs their head examined.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jun 22, 2011 0:11:04 GMT -5
*winces and hugs your mum*
I've recently thought about this...if cutting/scratching/choking/beating yourself is wrong, then doing it to someone else is even worse.
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Post by nightangel1282 on Jun 22, 2011 0:24:20 GMT -5
having two wacks on the ass with a leather belt =/= beating the crap out of a woman with the belt buckle side.
Just saying.
You know what? Fuck it. Let's just agree to disagree and you can all rest easy that I'm not going to ever have children so you don't ever need to worry about me "abusing" (aka: physically disciplining aka: spanking) any child ever.
With all the crappy little "time outs" kids get these days, people still wonder why they're running wild?
Whatever. I said my piece in this topic and I'm getting out. I doubt if I'll comment in this again because I'm just going to raise a huge shitstorm with my opinion on the matter.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jun 22, 2011 0:43:12 GMT -5
Okay, I get that you're leaving the thread, but I gotta just ask this: how is two whacks with a belt (presumably with pants and underwear intact, or I need to have a little talk with your father) WORSE than slapping the shit out of a 4-year-old with enough force to cause a split lip? PM me if you like, I'm just astonished at that.
And my main point was to demonstrate that even severely abused children can grow up to idolize the abuser, so it's a little difficult for me to accept "we can laugh at it now" as a decent defense of spanking, whipping, abuse, whatever you wish to label it.
ETA: Thanks for basically calling me and Shane hellions.
After trying physical punishment early in my childhood, my mom quickly learned how to get my attention without the threat of her dad's old leather belt. And she got wonderful compliments on her well-behaved children-- all four of them --from the patrons of stores and restaurants who visibly cringed at the sight of four small children.
...on the plus side, I didn't realize I felt as strongly about this as I do about a certain procedure beginning with a 'c', so thanks.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Jun 22, 2011 1:13:21 GMT -5
There's a child/wife abuser in the book I'm reading and he got the shit beat out of HIM in return after he got drunk off his ass and decided to knock around his kids and his wife so hard they bled profusely and were already bruising by the time the leader of the group got there to beat him.
I had never felt such a desire to travel into the book to give a character a piece of my mind until that moment when I read that half of his son's face was black and blue and his wife's entire upper body was bruised.
There's a special place in wherever bad people go for abusers of any shape or form. Mental or physical.
Also, as for idolizing those who have abused you... it's a variation of Stockholm Syndrome.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jun 22, 2011 2:16:17 GMT -5
I had my ass whacked a few times. Never to the point of leaving a welt, and it was more humiliating than painful.
Granted, at least one of those spankings was done for an inappropriate reason, but still, there's a way to use physical discipline that doesn't involve actual harm. But it should only be used during emergency discipline situations, such as a kid wandering out into the road when there's a car coming and you catch them in time and need to teach them immediately that wandering out into the road is a BAD FUCKING THING.
...doing it for trivial things, however, and doing it frequently or even using it as your main punishment is stupid.
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Post by anti-nonsense on Jun 22, 2011 3:17:17 GMT -5
I got spanked on the ass with a wooden spoon on occasion when I was little, my mom always gave a warning that if we did something or didn't do something we'd get spanked, We learned that she meant it pretty quick and the warning was usually enough after that. And we never got any bruises or welts from it, it just stung for a few minutes.
so yeah, there is a difference between spanking and abuse. not that spanking is a preferable form of discipline, but it's not OMG evil either.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Jun 22, 2011 3:26:33 GMT -5
I think you guys are conveniently ignoring the part where it wasn't just whipping (even if it was viewed as just a couple smacks on the ass) when it was MUCH more than that (read: medical complications arose afterward).
People are so rarely able to figure out that whipping doesn't mean taking a chunk out of the child's ass but they say that it is just a 'whoopin on the bottom' when it is much more than that.
If I were to ask someone down the street what whipping or spanking is then another person the same question their answers would probably be different.
Spanking can easily be abuse especially because adults are often unaware of just how hard their smacks are and they ignore the child's complaints about it because "Are you talking back to me!? Another five smacks!"
A light smack on the rear to get the kid's attention? Fine. But not giving them 25 smacks on the ass until your hand hurts and the kid's ass is bleeding from the friction. Which you know... a lot of people think it isn't a proper 'whippin' until that happens.
As I said, my ass and lower back? Yeah you can't really even TOUCH me there or else my body twitches and I feel numb the next hour. Imagine if you were to smack your child's bottom a few times not knowing they might have nerves a little closer to the surface than you think. Now suddenly he can't move very well and it's not just cause he's sore.
Light swats I'm okay with. Pounding on the ass I'm not. Using an INSTRUMENT is even worse. My mother had multiple spoons broken across her and her sisters. This is a Bad Thing.
Sorry if I'm a little touchy about abuse discipline.
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Post by Haseen on Jun 22, 2011 4:03:43 GMT -5
Also on this topic, spanking that doesn't go into the territory of outright abuse is just a temporary pain, but loss of privileges are a lasting thing. Not being allowed to watch your favorite TV show or play any video games SUCKS, and it keeps on sucking for as long as it's not allowed. That makes the punishment more effective, with the only drawback being that you actually have to monitor what your kids are doing, which you should be doing anyways if you're not lazy parents.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jun 22, 2011 5:02:30 GMT -5
Shane, we weren't ignoring that fact. We were talking about the differences between spanking and abuse.
What he did was certainly abuse.
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Jun 22, 2011 12:54:33 GMT -5
I got spanked on the ass with a wooden spoon on occasion when I was little, my mom always gave a warning that if we did something or didn't do something we'd get spanked, We learned that she meant it pretty quick and the warning was usually enough after that. And we never got any bruises or welts from it, it just stung for a few minutes. so yeah, there is a difference between spanking and abuse. not that spanking is a preferable form of discipline, but it's not OMG evil either. Another corporal-punishment recipient here, both at home and in middle school. *raises hand*I second this wholeheartedly. Corporal punishment does NOT automatically equal abuse. That having been said, I agree equally wholeheartedly that what this self-immolating guy (When'd you think you'd hear "immolating" used in conversation?  ) did was well over the line. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jun 22, 2011 13:59:36 GMT -5
Spanking should, in my opinion, NEVER be used in anger, and should involve only the administrator's hand. It's much harder to tell how hard you're hitting when you're using a bamboo back scratcher (as my mother used to) or a 'switch'.
That said, rarely have I ever seen a situation that CALLED for a thorough spanking.
Additionally, in case anyone misunderstood my rant, I was addressing what the previous poster had said about receiving worse than the little girl in the article had, for much less serious infractions than licking her dad's hand.
And I'd like to repeat that no parent should EVER raise their hand or switch in anger. If you're that pissed off, relieve them of their privileges.
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Post by priestling on Jun 22, 2011 14:57:44 GMT -5
I was routinely swatted with a wooden spoon for daring to talk back to my fundie mother when I questioned religion, particularly after my uncle was murdered when I was 7. She eventually broke the damned thing while beating my ass with it at one point. She also burned most of my fantasy books, some of my metal and rock CD's and a few of my awesome shirts with dragons on them because she insisted I didn't know the difference between fantasy and reality.
She fucking stopped after I punched her in the face when she tried swatting me again at 13 years old. I'm lucky my dad was there to cover for me and have my back, or who knows how bad that would have gotten...
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) did was well over the line.