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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jun 24, 2011 0:24:18 GMT -5
That's only if it's done improperly. For one thing, if you do it right, it's not even about the pain, it's about the humiliation. As someone mentioned, use your hand, not any instrument. Especially not butterfly shaped fly swatters  Second of all, EXPLAIN WHAT THE FUCK THEY DID WRONG.Thirdly, use it for SEVERE CASES ONLY. It should NOT be your primary punishment, or your secondary for that matter. Temper cases are better handled by isolation and restriction. As in, "you act badly, you get stuff taken from you." |
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Post by lighthorseman on Jun 24, 2011 0:58:15 GMT -5
Soooo... do you have kids? I've never driven drunk, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Never done crystal meth, but that doesn't mean it's good for you. Never been a cop, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stay silent when someone beats their suspect while he's in handcuffs. So tell me, do you really apply this logic elsewhere, or is being a parent a sort of special condition where you have to experience it in order to judge the actions? Because that seems to hit a couple logical fallacies on the way out the door, ones frequently used by the fundamentalists this site generally mocks. And I'm having trouble seeing why it's more logical when "our own" do it. Just pointing out, sometimes its easy to take a position on something when you've no actual direct experience of it. FYI, you better believe my daughter gets a smack on the bum when she is deliberately, willfully naughty (and you better believe she does it on purpose. testing boundaries is what 5 year olds do). Usually, the question "would you like a smack on the bottom?" is enough to get her to behave, but sometimes it has to be backed up. If she knew I wouldn't go through with it, the threat would carry no weight. No, its not a regular occurence. Indeed, it probably only happens once a month, if that. And no, I certainly don't enjoy doing it. But I would go to the mat on this that A. I am a good father, B. This is not child abuse, C. People who ACTUALLY abuse their children (e.g. hit more than once, hard enough to leave marks, above the shoulders etc.) need serious help, if not legal intervention. Were you raising my daughter, I strongly suspect your position would change. |
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Post by nightangel1282 on Jun 24, 2011 2:29:20 GMT -5
@nightangel -- There is NEVER a good reason to hit a child. Discipline can, and SHOULD, be non-physical, because all spanking teaches the kid is that it's okay to hit someone if they're smaller than you are. Funny, my antisocial tendencies were caused by bullying in school... bullying that my father went out of his way to put a stop to, dealing with an uncaring administration that wouldn't do diddly fuck all until my father threatened to take me into the city to get me judo lessons so I could defend myself from the other kids. And I have never in my life hit someone who was smaller than I am. In fact, I've NEVER gotten into a fight in school, so your argument falls flat. Each individual child will react differently to different forms of punishment. Some will not react to time outs or strict talking to's. Some of them will lash out to greater extremes if you try taking their toys or priviliges away. Of course, the opposite can also be true. As I said, it depends upon the individual child. My father's methods worked for his children; I didn't say it would necessarily work for ALL children. And, as someone mentioned earlier (zach?) spanking should only be used for EXTREME situations. I pointed some of my own personal experiences in my pm to deadpan (you don't need to be afraid to read it Deadpan laugh out loud. I kept it very civil... though one story of punishment my BROTHER received might make your eyebrow twitch). I got the belt for reasons that I believe I was fully deserving of. Playing with fire, and THROWING ROCKS AT A BABY BADGER (Fuck was THAT stupid of me). And each and every time, after I had calmed down, my father sat with me and calmly explained why I had gotten the belt and how the situation could have resulted in serious injury or death. I should clarify that the above situations were on my bare butt... the ONLY TWO TIMES he ever did so on my bare butt. He kept it confined to the posterior because there would be no permanant damage. He refused adamantly to ever use it on the HANDS LIKE THE SCHOOL DID because it could cause permanant damage to the hands. With only ONE exception, he never hit any of us on the head (backhanded by brother across the face for doing something psychotically dangerous), and he never hit us on the back. He had his limits to what he would do, and we all knew and understood that. Edit: Just thought I would quickly throw in that I do not AGREE with using the belt. I acknowledge that my father probably could have gotten his point across just as well by simply using his hand. I'm just trying to illustrate some of the extreme situations that my father believed warranted physical punishment. |
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Alyra
Full Member
ex-fundie
Posts: 143
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Post by Alyra on Jun 24, 2011 6:07:32 GMT -5
My parents used corporal punishment. My mom now thinks that they were excessive in disciplining. The only one I think I actually deserved was when I was five, I snuck out of the house and went across the street to play with friends while my dad was sleeping and mom was at work. That was dangerous and stupid, and I don't blame her for freaking out. Most of the time, though, it was for stuff that didn't matter. But I don't think it has anything to do with any of my issues now, either.
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Post by Amaranth on Jun 24, 2011 7:38:35 GMT -5
I am now curious as to what science can tell us. In a quick search, I found three studies saying it leads to antisocial behavior ( 1 2 3) and one saying there are long term negative psychological effects ( 1). I also found one saying that there isn't a negative effect ( 1). So, a quick glance at the literature tells me any form of physical punishment is a bad idea. You're all free to look for more data or dissect the studies if you like. Are you a parent? Because science is nothing compared to personal anecdotes! |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Jun 24, 2011 9:45:43 GMT -5
If you have to hit your children to get them to listen to you, then you're probably not that great of a parent. Soooo... do you have kids? |
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Post by Amaranth on Jun 24, 2011 10:08:04 GMT -5
Sounds like the sort of defense the Nazis would mount. (sorry, couldn't resist....) |
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Post by malicious_bloke on Jun 24, 2011 10:20:03 GMT -5
Sounds like the sort of defense the Nazis would mount. (sorry, couldn't resist....) |
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Post by Amaranth on Jun 24, 2011 10:38:53 GMT -5
That sort of flippant response is just what I'd expect from a 9-11 terrorist. |
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Post by Amaranth on Jun 24, 2011 10:46:50 GMT -5
Just pointing out, sometimes its easy to take a position on something when you've no actual direct experience of it. And I'm just pointing out how ridiculous an argument that is. But hey, justify a logical fallacy with the same logical fallacy. Everybody got a gris-gris. |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jun 24, 2011 12:14:58 GMT -5
No, I read it alright, nightangel, I just don't know how to respond.  But yes, your story about your brother DID make me twitch. As bad as he was, he didn't deserve quite all that; I daresay your father's yelling and making him apologize on his knees was enough to make him think twice again about it. |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 24, 2011 13:00:10 GMT -5
This man is not a hero. First, a good father wouldn't slap his children so hard that it cuts their lip. Second he refused to provide for the children that he put on this earth. He also refused to get help. In the eyes of the Father's Rights Movement, that makes him Parent Of The Year! |
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Post by scotsgit on Jun 24, 2011 13:02:11 GMT -5
Mind you, when he was on fire, did anyone have the presence of mind to nip out for marshmallows?  |
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Post by nightangel1282 on Jun 24, 2011 13:57:29 GMT -5
No, I read it alright, nightangel, I just don't know how to respond. But yes, your story about your brother DID make me twitch. As bad as he was, he didn't deserve quite all that; I daresay your father's yelling and making him apologize on his knees was enough to make him think twice again about it. I know. But that incident scared the CRAP out of me and my sister... especially since our brother was about twice our collective size, and was even built bigger than Dad (Maurice has a different father than me and my sister, who was over six feet tall and built like a football player, and according to my mom, bro looks JUST like him) My sister and I are teeny by comparison. At the time it was comparable to two skinny-as-a-rail girls getting chased around the house by an enraged Kingpin with a sharp, pointy object. And yes, after my brother had calmed down (and my dad... after sending maurice to his room, dad went outside and kicked some barrels around the yard to let out pent up aggression), my dad sat down with him and they had a VERY long talk. I think he got the longest lecture out of all the kids my dad's ever had. Over the top? I agree. He could have gotten the same message across by swatting him on the butt with his hand and then bringing him on a tour of a local prison to show him the kinds of consequences there are for those kinds of actions. Effective? Yes, as I mentioned before, he never did anything even remotely that insane again. Nightangel |
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Post by Bezron on Jun 24, 2011 14:21:00 GMT -5
Mind you, when he was on fire, did anyone have the presence of mind to nip out for marshmallows? Win |
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But yes, your story about your brother DID make me twitch. As bad as he was, he didn't deserve quite all that; I daresay your father's yelling and making him apologize on his knees was enough to make him think twice again about it.
