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Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on Jul 17, 2011 19:02:27 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but all this topic can make me think of is Doc Brown being shot. Don't steal plutonium, kids! Not even in the name of time travel!
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 17, 2011 20:08:26 GMT -5
Yeah let them decide, don't bomb them.
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Post by ironbite on Jul 17, 2011 20:17:00 GMT -5
they decid...no I'm gonna stop this.
Ironbite-it's like talking to LHM about why he's being a dick all over again.
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 17, 2011 20:31:51 GMT -5
WTF? Were not letting them decide by supporting one side, which may not represent all or even most Libyans. which BTW is a almost meaningless term, as Libya is heavily tribal.
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Post by ironbite on Jul 17, 2011 20:33:43 GMT -5
You....you obviously know nothing.
Ironbite-if you did you'd see that this has been a long time coming.
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Post by ltfred on Jul 17, 2011 20:43:21 GMT -5
Yeah let them decide, don't bomb them. Gaddhafi certainly does not run a democracy. Libyans do not get to decide anything about their government at present. When they attempted to make a decision, Gaddhafi sent troops to kill them, preventing them from deciding who should be president. It's legitimate for NATO and the UN to prevent those troops stopping Libyans from deciding who their president will be. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Jul 17, 2011 21:48:38 GMT -5
Yeah let them decide, don't bomb them. They're not just randomly dropping bombs all over Libya. Also, did you miss the part where the rebels REQUESTED military aide? |
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Post by dasfuchs on Jul 17, 2011 22:42:45 GMT -5
I'd be less inclined to think the "human rights" issue of the matter was an excuse if not for the selective pick and choose that everyone chooses.
Once it's over, no one will go into Somalia and do anything, no one will care about North Korea, until Kimmy says something stupid, no one will step into some shithole of a backwards African country to help anyone.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 17, 2011 22:49:12 GMT -5
I'd be less inclined to think the "human rights" issue of the matter was an excuse if not for the selective pick and choose that everyone chooses. Once it's over, no one will go into Somalia and do anything, no one will care about North Korea, until Kimmy says something stupid, no one will step into some shithole of a backwards African country to help anyone. Ex...cept... people ARE trying to help things out in Africa, and people ARE trying to help Somalia. Unless you're speaking of government, in which case... well, our government's never exactly been known to be very charitable >_> As for North Korea... well, that's tough because, as you said, Kimmy has to do something stupid first. However, Gaddafi HAS done something stupid, and the U.N. has gotten involved. As much as the government may justify this through "human rights", I support it BECAUSE of human rights. |
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Post by dasfuchs on Jul 17, 2011 22:54:14 GMT -5
I'd be less inclined to think the "human rights" issue of the matter was an excuse if not for the selective pick and choose that everyone chooses. Once it's over, no one will go into Somalia and do anything, no one will care about North Korea, until Kimmy says something stupid, no one will step into some shithole of a backwards African country to help anyone. Ex...cept... people ARE trying to help things out in Africa, and people ARE trying to help Somalia. Unless you're speaking of government, in which case... well, our government's never exactly been known to be very charitable >_> As for North Korea... well, that's tough because, as you said, Kimmy has to do something stupid first. However, Gaddafi HAS done something stupid, and the U.N. has gotten involved. As much as the government may justify this through "human rights", I support it BECAUSE of human rights. And I believe you missed my point. "Human rights" seems like an excuse given how many other places have had issues and continue to have issues that the UN, Nato and every other government tend to ignore. If Lybia is such a hot button that warrants military action by outside countries, why didn't they do the same before to other countries in the same situation? |
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 17, 2011 22:56:08 GMT -5
What NATO is doing is essentially deciding for the Libyan people that the NTC is the legitimate gov, which is meddling in internal Libyan Affairs.
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 17, 2011 22:58:21 GMT -5
And you really haven't addressed most of my points.
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Post by ironbite on Jul 17, 2011 23:04:38 GMT -5
That's ok...you haven't addressed anyone else's either.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 17, 2011 23:05:17 GMT -5
Ex...cept... people ARE trying to help things out in Africa, and people ARE trying to help Somalia. Unless you're speaking of government, in which case... well, our government's never exactly been known to be very charitable >_> As for North Korea... well, that's tough because, as you said, Kimmy has to do something stupid first. However, Gaddafi HAS done something stupid, and the U.N. has gotten involved. As much as the government may justify this through "human rights", I support it BECAUSE of human rights. And I believe you missed my point. "Human rights" seems like an excuse given how many other places have had issues and continue to have issues that the UN, Nato and every other government tend to ignore. If Lybia is such a hot button that warrants military action by outside countries, why didn't they do the same before to other countries in the same situation? No, I did get your point. I admit that it's probably an excuse for the governments. I'm saying, however, that they should be doing this more often. Helping people out when human rights are being violated. It's a bunch of failures with a few successes scattered about. Encourage the successes, decry the failures. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Jul 17, 2011 23:05:59 GMT -5
I'd be less inclined to think the "human rights" issue of the matter was an excuse if not for the selective pick and choose that everyone chooses. Once it's over, no one will go into Somalia and do anything, no one will care about North Korea, until Kimmy says something stupid, no one will step into some shithole of a backwards African country to help anyone. Which is a perfectly reasonable point, but the thing we're taking issue with is the notion that we shouldn't even be concerned if it doesn't affect us. Like I've said from the beginning, I have mixed feelings about NATO and UN involvement in Libya. I honestly don't know what the right move is here. What I do know, however, is that "it doesn't affect us" isn't a valid enough reason to not help, in and of itself. It's the nationalist mentality behind it that bothers me. |
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