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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 17, 2011 22:59:07 GMT -5
If that dictator is doing anything to us we shouldn't do anything to him. Human rights are just Red Herrings, there are places all over where there are Human Rights violations and we let them go. For most of human history most people's human rights have been violated and this will continue to be the case and we have to accept it.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 17, 2011 23:02:03 GMT -5
If that dictator is doing anything to us we shouldn't do anything to him. Human rights are just Red Herrings, there are places all over where there are Human Rights violations and we let them go. For most of human history most people's human rights have been violated and this will continue to be the case and we have to accept it. People do evil, so evil is justified? The fact that we are letting human rights violations go is a BAD THING! That would be like me stealing something and saying that, since people are murdering other people, that it's okay to steal stuff. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Jul 17, 2011 23:27:14 GMT -5
If that dictator is doing anything to us we shouldn't do anything to him. Human rights are just Red Herrings, there are places all over where there are Human Rights violations and we let them go. For most of human history most people's human rights have been violated and this will continue to be the case and we have to accept it. I wasn't asking whether or not we should get involved, I'm asking if you think that the Syrian government's actions are justified. |
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Post by dasfuchs on Jul 18, 2011 0:03:42 GMT -5
This sounds like the perfect excuse to invade assist the spread of democracy. America, fuck yeah! Why not, right? |
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 18, 2011 8:15:41 GMT -5
My answer is it doesn't matter what we think.
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Post by Armand Tanzarian on Jul 18, 2011 9:38:18 GMT -5
Ok where do we begin. It blows my mind to think someone would advocate being oppressed (as a false sense of stability) as opposed to the possibility of a country being hijacked by extremism and sectarian. Yeah there is the possibility, so? Not like democracy keeps them out either (see: Tea Party). Let me tell you what it feels like to live under a strongman. Your life is determined for you through the color of your skin, the religion you were born into and your social strata. If you are of a minority, sometimes the majority is given implicit or explicit power to oppress you and you are denied doors while far weaker idiots get through. You may have money (if you're lucky) but you don't have freedom to change your fate; its like you're born into a stictly structured machine, with each cog designed to feed the people in power, while keep you stuck at the bottom. Every word you say could make you disappear. If you don't sing the song the government wants you to sing, you could be shot, jailed, or beaten up. The police becomes not the protector of the people, but the protector of the ruler. You watch your hard-earned money go from your measly paycheck to some governor's million-dollar mansion. In your own country, as a minority, while you can't say anything that even smells offensive, your so-called "elected officials" openly call for your eviction. Any attempt to even speak up is brutally suppressed. You know those elections you mock, how American Republicans cry about voter fraud? Well voter fraud is almost a given. You may take human rights as "red herrings", and living under a dictator as "better", but it really doesn't feel as good as you think when you're actually under one of them. Frankly, I'll take the possibility of sectarian strife, and the ability to choose the kind of government I want, to some false sense of security. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Jul 18, 2011 13:05:55 GMT -5
Well said, Armand. My answer is it doesn't matter what we think. So why ask for opinions, then? Why post not one, but two threads about uprisings? |
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 19, 2011 11:03:07 GMT -5
Aramd, first of all let me make this clear, I am glad that I live under a democracy. As for the example you gave, which is Malaysia, I'm pretty sure the average Malay prefers it the way it is then if it was a true democracy, I am saying this as a person of half Chinese-Malaysian descent. Most people in the world would rather security than freedom. I understand as a Westerner it may be hard for you to wrap your head around that concept it's true. In Syria it's is also true, as Alawites will (notice will not might) suffer for their association with the regime. Also Christians will be increasingly marginalized in a true democracy as will the Kurds be as the majority of the population are Sunni Arabs. The Arab has a shitty record of treating it's minorities and things will probably be worse in Syria with a democracy, at least the current regime is made up of minorities so it has an interest to treat other minorities pretty well.
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 19, 2011 12:33:57 GMT -5
It's important to realize that before the Assad regime, Alawis were treated like shit.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Jul 19, 2011 12:43:34 GMT -5
I understand as a Westerner it may be hard for you to wrap your head around that concept it's true. You do realize that he lives in Malaysia, right? |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 19, 2011 12:53:43 GMT -5
I understand as a Westerner it may be hard for you to wrap your head around that concept it's true. You do realize that he lives in Malaysia, right? This. linuxian, You just basically told someone who lives in a country that he's wrong and you know better about his country than him. So you're half-Malaysian or whatever. Big whoop, blood doesn't mean you understand like blood's problems. |
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Post by Ranger Joe on Jul 19, 2011 16:18:38 GMT -5
This sounds like the perfect excuse to invade assist the spread of democracy. America, fuck yeah! Comin to save the mother fuckin' day, yeah! AMERRRICA!!!! FUCK YEAH!!! |
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 19, 2011 16:36:13 GMT -5
Is he Malay or Chinese or any other ethnic group? He was basically wailing about how life was so horrible and a democracy would be better. I bet that the majority of the people, ie the Malays rather this way. Ie your values of democracy are being followed as the wishes of most of the people are being followed their. This is what "democracy" in the Arab world would look like.You can find examples like this all over the world. In Syria, most of the minorities rightly fear what will happen to them once the Sunnis take over.
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Post by linuxianilmurov on Jul 19, 2011 16:56:29 GMT -5
It's funny how you guys are all screaming about democracy, but conveniently leave out the rampant sectarianism in Syria. In Iraq when Saddam fell, the country basically exploded in sectarian violence. Theirs no reason to assume that Syria is any different, the Assads' position isn't any different from Hussein's as a minority controlling a country, interestingly it's the same Ba'ath Party in both countries.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Jul 19, 2011 17:40:31 GMT -5
Is he Malay or Chinese or any other ethnic group? He was basically wailing about how life was so horrible This? It's an example of being a dick. He's not "wailing", he's raising a legitimate point. And living under the conditions he has described would be unpleasant at best. For the blatant assholery displayed with that sentence, consider yourself on your first Official Warning. |
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