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Post by MaybeNever on Aug 15, 2011 11:04:46 GMT -5
I think it's the more general 'nothing ends up getting done'. Stuff got done in the Soviet Union. From the 30s-50s, the average GDP growth rate was 10%, higher than modern China. If you didn't work hard, you got shot as a 'saboteur'. That's a pretty good incentive. They were really good at developing. The problem was that once they got there, they hadn't found a good way to remain developed. The bureacracy, which was created for perfectly legit reasons (prevent X spying on us or what have you) became self-justifying, gained inertia and then stagnated. And then, 30 years later, fell apart under the weight of it's own inertia, as it couldn't effectively respond to civil disturbance in Poland. When I referred to utopian communism, I definitely wasn't talking about the USSR, or indeed any actual place. Basically I meant that each system expects people to be and do things that simply are not natural for most of us - certainly not to the extent that is required. |
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 15, 2011 11:08:13 GMT -5
A libertarian is only truly free when he's dead. So, everybody wins! New Hampshire's motto is famously "Live Free or Die." NOW YOU CAN DO BOTH! |
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Post by booley on Aug 15, 2011 13:01:39 GMT -5
It's kind of funny that Randian Objectivism, despite being consciously designed to be the diametric opposite of utopian communism, has exactly the same problems. Well what happens is that a small group of people used the system to get more and more for themselves at the expense of everybody else. Even though they stated that prosperity would be had by all if their way was implemented. Indeed, there still remain many true believer who will insist this is true even as the evidence mounts that they don't really benefit at all. Now am I talking about Communism or the Laissez Faire Capitalism that Rand wanted? When one's at the bottom, the "ism" they use to keep you there doesn't really matter. |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 15, 2011 13:58:01 GMT -5
Would you kindly... let me laugh a little.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 15, 2011 13:58:45 GMT -5
I think it's the more general 'nothing ends up getting done'. Stuff got done in the Soviet Union. From the 30s-50s, the average GDP growth rate was 10%, higher than modern China. If you didn't work hard, you got shot as a 'saboteur'. That's a pretty good incentive. They were really good at developing. The problem was that once they got there, they hadn't found a good way to remain developed. The bureacracy, which was created for perfectly legit reasons (prevent X spying on us or what have you) became self-justifying, gained inertia and then stagnated. And then, 30 years later, fell apart under the weight of it's own inertia, as it couldn't effectively respond to civil disturbance in Poland. And then it collapsed like a flan in a cupboard. Good riddance, too. |
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Post by Old Viking on Aug 15, 2011 15:04:43 GMT -5
Whatever floats your boat.
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 15, 2011 15:37:36 GMT -5
Whatever floats your boat. Then we shall patch our boats with the skins of the fallen! ...That sounds like it could be some really pretentious metal act. |
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Post by Passerby on Aug 15, 2011 16:42:56 GMT -5
Here I thought free markets only functioned as a way of distributing resources when there were actual resources available to be distributed. How very silly of me. A moderately reasonable person might think that, but these people are under the impression that demand and neccessity will actually somehow create supply and solution from nothingness for commercial consumption. The concept of finite resources only factors into pricing schemes and not into sustainability or practicality. As long as money exists and their bank accounts are full, Libertarians seriously think their problems are already solved. As far as the Free Market gospel is concerned there will always be another supplier and it's only a lack of business sense that prevents anyone from meeting your needs. |
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Aug 15, 2011 17:33:13 GMT -5
Hopefully no one has posted this before... Now to convince the hyper-wealthy to give up their palatial homes to go live on an oil rig... |
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 15, 2011 18:14:07 GMT -5
As long as money exists and their bank accounts are full, Libertarians seriously think their problems are already solved. As far as the Free Market gospel is concerned there will always be another supplier and it's only a lack of business sense that prevents anyone from meeting your needs. There will always be more; that's what more MEANS. Oh, Dinosaurs, you managed to pre-mock the Tea Party by over a decade. |
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Post by nickiknack on Aug 15, 2011 20:15:34 GMT -5
I'll be the first to wave these asshats goodbye, and I'm with Jodie, I want to play Pirate and fuck up their shit too...
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Post by Meshakhad on Aug 15, 2011 20:31:19 GMT -5
I'm on board with this pirating idea.
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Post by MaybeNever on Aug 15, 2011 20:33:34 GMT -5
Okay, but don't go overboard.
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Post by Napoleon the Clown on Aug 15, 2011 22:31:57 GMT -5
Okay, but don't go overboard.  |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 15, 2011 22:41:52 GMT -5
Okay, but don't go overboard. I <3 you. |
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