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Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 5, 2011 0:00:18 GMT -5
It's not the religion. It's the culture. That's what's killing people in that area. Ironbite-it's kinda amazing. The two aren't exactly separate, nor does culture dominate over religion. They're both responsible here.
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Post by the sandman on Oct 5, 2011 7:52:03 GMT -5
It's not surprising when you think about how they view women in Pakistan, and in many hard-core Islamic societies. In these societies women are commodities, property, chattel. They have no value to the culture outside of their ability to produce children and their utility as a means of forming family alliances. The woman herself has no value. To the Pakistani culture, a raped woman is no different that spoiled fruit, merely a shameful failure that needs to be disposed of as quickly as possible to prevent them from "contaminating" the rest of the family and community.
As for holding the men responsible, remember that in Shari'a Law, rape is a crime of lust, not violence or power, and in cases of lust, Shari'a considers the woman who inspired the lust to be the sole guilty party. Why would the village elders hold the men responsible when to them it was the girl who caused the attack by inciting lust in the asshole rapists.
But I am glad to see that some Pakistanis are finally moving beyond this idiocy.
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D Laurier
Full Member
Paying for cable (or satalite) TV, is like hiring sombody to projectile poop all over your brain
Posts: 196
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Post by D Laurier on Oct 5, 2011 14:14:06 GMT -5
I think I know how the family can redeem their honor: 1. Find every person involved in their daughter's rape. 2. Have the daughter kill them painfully. 3. Display their mutilated bodies as a warning to others. They used to do that, but british soldiers objected to being killed by brown women. Today we call them barbaric savages when they do it, so its a loosing proposition either way.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 5, 2011 16:21:11 GMT -5
Maybe that's putting it badly, shit like this is why I left religion. I don't think it is, that "it's not the religion's fault!" thing annoys the shit out of me. At the very least, religion is an enabler. Sure, they may have "done it" because of psychosis/tradition/whatever, but who tells the psychotic to pray it away, & from whence are the traditions derived &/or justified?
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 5, 2011 16:49:05 GMT -5
ANYTHING can be an enabler. Politics, budgets, what team you root for in sports, favorite colors...
Religion isn't special in that regard.
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Post by brandonl337 on Oct 5, 2011 17:43:27 GMT -5
exactly, I lost my faith long before i left my religion and I left because while people did good things with it, the bad things just kept piling on and getting worse.
and I don't hate religion exactly, that why I said I was putting it badly, I hate it being used for this purpose but it also lead to my step-mother volunteering at a soup kitchen. Religion and how people use it is a nuanced thing, no matter what the fundies might say, and I try totake a nuanced view of it.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 5, 2011 18:14:42 GMT -5
ANYTHING can be an enabler. Politics, budgets, what team you root for in sports, favorite colors... Religion isn't special in that regard. Right again.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 5, 2011 20:16:02 GMT -5
If religion isn't special, why am I expected to treat it specially, to make apologies for it when no one would bat an eye if I were blaming a politician?
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Post by brendanrizzo on Oct 5, 2011 20:21:55 GMT -5
Because lots of people believe in religion and want it treated with respect and deference.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 5, 2011 20:31:52 GMT -5
Yeah, that'll happen.
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Post by brendanrizzo on Oct 5, 2011 20:34:09 GMT -5
You just wanted an explanation, so I gave you an explanation. I actually agree with you on this. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 5, 2011 20:50:33 GMT -5
If it was a rhetorical question, do I still not get to shoot you in the crotch?
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Post by ironbite on Oct 5, 2011 22:10:01 GMT -5
yes yes shoot him in the crotch
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Post by Haseen on Oct 6, 2011 1:25:09 GMT -5
What? You don't shoot a guy in the dick! If there was ever one thing Eric Cartman was ever right about, it's that.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 6, 2011 2:56:25 GMT -5
If religion isn't special, why am I expected to treat it specially, to make apologies for it when no one would bat an eye if I were blaming a politician? Blaming a politician (a person) and blaming a religion (a vague set of ideals) are two entirely different entities. Blaming religion is like blaming guns/knives/tools for murders. What I'm saying is blame people specifically.
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