Am I really a racist or not?

[caseagainstfaith]

So I got called a racist yesterday and yet I don't think I am...but maybe I am to a certain degree. (Back Story) - Yesterday I was hanging out with a friend of mine who is a African American. Only he doesn't act gangster or any of that, he is a computer programmer, and really smart, etc. Anyway what happened was this "gangster" wannabe African American, was standing with some of his buddies dressed the same way talking, and my friend opened up the topic about how they give his race a bad name, I agreed with him saying that there are definitely two types of African Americans in the states. Well we went on and apparently when one of the "gangsters" walked by he over heard our conversation about it and said that since I was agreeing that they do give African Americans a bad name, that I was a racist "cracker" and didn't understand since I wasn't one of them. Yet I have friends who are African American and are fun to hang out with, they're just not wannabe "gangsters".
So am I really a racist or partly racist just cause I agreed with my friend that they do give his race a bad name, and that essentially there are 2 distinct types of African Americans in the states?

[Mira]

There aren't types of black people really, there are differences in social-economic class. In general, people of different socioeconomic backgrounds do not relate as well as people with similar backgrounds do.

Not racism, just sociology. Well, racism is a part of sociology, but my point still stands.

[br26354]

Let me see if I can help you a little bit here.

I am half Pueto rican. My father was born and raised in the bronx. I still have family there, but I dont talk to most of them... Why? Because MOST of them are your typical ghetto hispanics who try to get over on the system, collect welfare and DISOWN anyone who tries to break away and become their own personal successes.. They try to blame the state of their lives on everyone but themselves, but don't hesitate to hit up the successful family members, the same ppl they disown for money.

THIS is the ghetto mentality... THIS is what outsiders see, and thats why they give their respective ethnicities a bad name.


You are a personal success it sounds like so yeah you wouldn't understand, the gangsta you were talking to is correct, but your assessment is not incorrect, and you are not a rascist.

[Nihilist]

Speaking as half Mexican myself.... my mother's side were ranchers in what is now New Mexico, they lived in Santa Fe and Albuquerque for 400 years.

I cannot relate to my cousins on my mom's side, they're very traditional and not accepting of alternate identities. They are hard-working, yet they're a stereotype. But just because someone comes from a ghetto (hell, I did) does not mean they're bad people. Just, it can be a black hole of disadvantage that's hard as hell to get out of, not everyone's ship is up to speed to get out, and circumstances vary.

Someone who grew up in a middle class section of society wouldn't understand how hard it is to scrape up the totem pole with your fingernails, ghettoes are hard as hell to get out of. Advancing in life when it seems as if everything's out to get you sets the difficulty to expert, with a little luck thrown in.

That said, people don't recognize that I ever came from a ghetto because my dad was German, I look like my dad. People like to assume that pale people aren't poor, and I was beaten up as a kid by kids who figured I wasn't Mexican/Navajo/Hopi enough, so I probably had lunch money when they didn't. But no, my mom got SSI like they did, I got food stamps like them, TANF like them... but they thought I was rich, just because I looked white.

When in reality I didn't have anything they did, and we were all in the same ghetto.

[br26354]

It seems that you and I have different experiences Nihilist. My view of ghetto life was a bunch of lazy latinos who hated life and took it out on other people whilst stagnating in their own miserable existance.

[DeadpanDoubter]

Not sure if this helps, but my white(ish) family has been turned down for food stamps while darker skinned families making about the same amount as us have been approved. If you're white(ish) and don't have money, what the fuck is wrong with you???

Plus there's the redneck/hick parts of my family that like to scam the system: they work under the table, don't pay taxes, and get government assistance by lying about how much they actually make. It's 'nice' to see someone roll up in a brand new SUV when you know they supposedly struggle to feed their damned kids every month.

[Ian1732]

While we're on the topic of playing the Race Card, the other day I was in Math class, listening to the lesson, when someone outside of the classroom tosses what appears to be a note inside, at one of the many black students in the room. I joked that it was a threat, and that next time it would be a brick, and another kid says I'm being racist. Why? Because during the Civil Rights movements, there were people who would throw bricks at the protesters. Now I'm all for equal rights and everything, but what?

[tolpuddlemartyr]

Apr 4, 2010 21:14:29 GMT -5 caseagainstfaith said:

So I got called a racist yesterday and yet I don't think I am...but maybe I am to a certain degree. (Back Story) - Yesterday I was hanging out with a friend of mine who is a African American. Only he doesn't act gangster or any of that, he is a computer programmer, and really smart, etc. Anyway what happened was this "gangster" wannabe African American, was standing with some of his buddies dressed the same way talking, and my friend opened up the topic about how they give his race a bad name, I agreed with him saying that there are definitely two types of African Americans in the states. Well we went on and apparently when one of the "gangsters" walked by he over heard our conversation about it and said that since I was agreeing that they do give African Americans a bad name, that I was a racist "cracker" and didn't understand since I wasn't one of them. Yet I have friends who are African American and are fun to hang out with, they're just not wannabe "gangsters".
So am I really a racist or partly racist just cause I agreed with my friend that they do give his race a bad name, and that essentially there are 2 distinct types of African Americans in the states?

Don't know about the US but I've found that the whole gangster rap thing is more class - based than race based. Granted it's founders were African American but in my experience lower - class whites get into gangster rap because it glorifies crime, objectifies women and upholds hyper - macho behavior.

I used to work in an alternative school where most of the kids were white. Most of them got into gangster rap because they were under - class criminal white kids who identified with gangsters.

When I worked in an English language school with mostly African students the only ones who really identified with gangster rap were the "bad" kids who weren't doing so well academically and tended to act out their frustration with bad behavior.

It's the same with other violent subcultures, people identify with them because they live violent lives and not because of their ethnic background per se. Back in the seventies in the UK there were plenty of black skinheads because skinheads were always much more about masculinity, football and fighting than they were about race.



Styles of dress or music might have an occasional correlation between members of an ethnic group, but that doesn't have anything to do with that ethnic group being "black", "white", "brown", "middle eastern" or whatever.

[Nihilist]

Apr 4, 2010 22:10:52 GMT -5 br26354 said:

It seems that you and I have different experiences Nihilist. My view of ghetto life was a bunch of lazy latinos who hated life and took it out on other people whilst stagnating in their own miserable existance.

But to assume all are lazy, that is when racism comes into play.

And some have horrible circumstances, regardless of racial background there's no denying.

Poor people in every demographic, and I can't help but feel a bit offended when you say Latinos in your experience were this way. And a bit myopic. To say the very least. How many rednecks are there? Poverty transcends race, laziness transcends race. And let me tell you, I'm not fucking lazy. Nobody I know is. Just some have steeper holes to get out of than others, which may/may not be their own doing. And to assume they're all because they're lazy motherfuckers taking YOUR motherfucking tax dollars.... well, doubly myopic. What kind of Faux News chow are you munching off?

And yes, a good majority of us poor kids grew up idolizing gangsta rap and Insane Clown Posse. I didn't, I was into other things, but agree that being lower class/poverty level makes people associate with gangsta rap more. I liked metal, but that's besides the point.

So, tell me how lazy I am, that my mom's food stamp benefits are because she's lazy and mooching off the system. Because she's 100% Latina. Go.

And with this parting shot, like they say in France, c'est la vie.

[br26354]

You make it sound like poverty is even coming into play? In many cases, these people have some money, they just waste it on material shit and, in some cases drugs. Life can be hard, but that doesnt mean that people can't pull themselves out of it. I have had family members, the few that i talk to, go through YEARS of night school while working full time to get degrees that have allowed them to be successful. You make it sound as though there is no way out.

[Nihilist]

Apr 4, 2010 22:52:04 GMT -5 br26354 said:

You make it sound like poverty is even coming into play? In many cases, these people have some money, they just waste it on material shit and, in some cases drugs. Life can be hard, but that doesnt mean that people can't pull themselves out of it. I have had family members, the few that i talk to, go through YEARS of night school while working full time to get degrees that have allowed them to be successful. You make it sound as though there is no way out.

Then why are you talking as if every Latino person you've come into contact with is lazy scum? Contradictory. Here, let me quote them for you, because maybe you're being lazy yourself, what now that you're bouncing around?

My view of ghetto life was a bunch of lazy latinos who hated life and took it out on other people whilst stagnating in their own miserable existance.

Please, just get it over with and admit I'm right instead of trying to straddle the fence.

[br26354]

One more thing, don't try to tell me that people don't have a choice when they have large families, and can only afford lower income housing in cities. I live next door to someone who commutes 2 hours to NYC so that they didn't HAVE to live in lower income housing or the projects.

So if someone REALLY wants to, they can get out, regardless of the circumstances.

And one MORE thing, don't try to label me as some heartless, O'Reilly watching republican, because if you knew me and made that assumption, I'd say you were blind. I am stating these views as an experienced observer, not some upper middle class white kid whos had everything handed to him. I've seen the alchoholism, the drugs, the poverty and other things that are associated with that kind of life, and I also know that there is a way out if you want it. That being said, I also know how people who live that life can bring someone who wants out down.

[br26354]

Im NOT on the fence, I wholeheartedly DEFEND what I said. Where the fuck do you live? I KNOW it wasn't the Bronx, or Washington Heights. That was MY view, what I was exposed to. Don't try to make me out like some kind of flip-flopping idiot. You ARE right about your views, because thats what YOU know, just like I'm right about what I know.

[Nihilist]

You failed to answer my statement as to why you've seemed to change your tune.

Here, let me quote it for you.

This is your more recent statement I quoted in your previous post.

You make it sound like poverty is even coming into play? In many cases, these people have some money, they just waste it on material shit and, in some cases drugs. Life can be hard, but that doesnt mean that people can't pull themselves out of it. I have had family members, the few that i talk to, go through YEARS of night school while working full time to get degrees that have allowed them to be successful. You make it sound as though there is no way out.

This is what you said before I called you in it:

My view of ghetto life was a bunch of lazy latinos who hated life and took it out on other people whilst stagnating in their own miserable existance.

What say you about this contradiction? I am merely pointing out contradiction, a point of view is just a point of view, legitimate, but when there's flopping after I call you on it, then it's damn.... cowardly to say the least.

[br26354]

Where is the contradiction exactly? Spell it out like I'm a retard...