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Post by davedan on Jul 26, 2011 19:24:17 GMT -5
I'd gladly do it myself, if I could. And if it were a perfect world, educationould be free, and anyone would be guaranteed a place in their course of choice. However... There are finite places available in each course in each university each year. How many places should be made available to full fee paying foreign students? How many should be made available for citizens? What is the standard that should be used to determine entry? All interesting and difficult questions but not to the point here. This is just about giving a segment of people an opportunity to join those queues they otherwise wouldn't have. Moreover the opportunity given to these people is likely to be rewarding for the US as a country. The biggest dilemna here seems to be where will republicans find their gardners and maids if illegal immigrants are educated? |
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 26, 2011 19:26:27 GMT -5
Irrelevant. Most of the illegals are already employed. Having citizenship would only mean that they're paying taxes and their employers can put them officially on the books, thereby paying taxes themselves. I think there's a flaw in your plan... which if you think for just a moment, might reveal itslef to you. I'll give you a hint... why is it, do you suppose, if there are unemployed American citizens and legal immigrants, that in certain sectors, illegal immigrants find it so easy to find work? Next point, while yes, illegals certainly do work, how many of those jobs are for tertiary educated people? |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Jul 26, 2011 19:27:49 GMT -5
And if it were a perfect world, educationould be free, and anyone would be guaranteed a place in their course of choice. However... There are finite places available in each course in each university each year. How many places should be made available to full fee paying foreign students? How many should be made available for citizens? What is the standard that should be used to determine entry? All interesting and difficult questions but not to the point here. This is just about giving a segment of people an opportunity to join those queues they otherwise wouldn't have. Moreover the opportunity given to these people is likely to be rewarding for the US as a country. The biggest dilemna here seems to be where will republicans find their gardners and maids if illegal immigrants are educated? Brother, if I could exalt you for that, I would. Over 9,000 times. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 26, 2011 19:32:27 GMT -5
And if it were a perfect world, educationould be free, and anyone would be guaranteed a place in their course of choice. However... There are finite places available in each course in each university each year. How many places should be made available to full fee paying foreign students? How many should be made available for citizens? What is the standard that should be used to determine entry? All interesting and difficult questions but not to the point here. This is just about giving a segment of people an opportunity to join those queues they otherwise wouldn't have. Moreover the opportunity given to these people is likely to be rewarding for the US as a country. The biggest dilemna here seems to be where will republicans find their gardners and maids if illegal immigrants are educated? It is about giving a segment of people an opportunity that necessarily means denying the same opportunity to other people, who most would say, are more entitled. I dopn't see how it follows that the net result would be rewarding for the US, either. If there are 50 university places, and they are all filled, then you get 50 graduates. Whether the graduates are citizens or illegal immigrants, you still get 50 graduates, so how does the nation benefit by training illegal immigrants at the expense of her citizens? |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Jul 26, 2011 19:35:24 GMT -5
I officially declare this thread boring.  |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Jul 26, 2011 20:53:24 GMT -5
This partially why I'm proud to be Australian. Over here, the only government attention illegals receive is deportation. Helps not sharing a land border with a country with lots of would be immigrants. Fuck, can you imagine what it would be like if the bloody kiwis could walk here??? Actually, I'd be fucking off over there. Say what you will about their love of sheep, but their lack of censorship, especially in the video game and porn department sure is nice. |
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Post by davedan on Jul 26, 2011 21:01:42 GMT -5
If you are Australian you don't need a visa to move to NZ - it would be no more difficult than moving from Sydney to Perth (actually shorter time traveling)
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Post by Art Vandelay on Jul 26, 2011 21:03:28 GMT -5
Well that's dandy.
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 26, 2011 21:20:37 GMT -5
Excpt that they don't need a visa to move here, either *shudder* And if Australian porn censorship is effecting you in the slightest fashion, might I suggest that you aren't internetting right? |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Jul 26, 2011 21:43:20 GMT -5
Excpt that they don't need a visa to move here, either *shudder* And if Australian porn censorship is effecting you in the slightest fashion, might I suggest that you aren't internetting right? It's purely the principle of the matter. Trust me, I would not want a cop to see my stash. Also, the video game censorship does indeed effect me. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 26, 2011 21:46:21 GMT -5
Excpt that they don't need a visa to move here, either *shudder* And if Australian porn censorship is effecting you in the slightest fashion, might I suggest that you aren't internetting right? It's purely the principle of the matter. Trust me, I would not want a cop to see my stash. Also, the video game censorship does indeed effect me. Yes, I think there should be an R rating for computergames too, but labor governments LOVE censorship. It'll never happen while Conroy has his finger on the button. |
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Post by Passerby on Jul 26, 2011 21:55:56 GMT -5
So basically it's allowing a private buy-in for public schools. Making it legal for the government to accept money from the proceeds of a crime, how does this not surprise me? Well I suppose on one level it is a good thing that the legitimacy of the education they received and paid for won't simply be stripped away when they're deported and they'll bring home knowledge hopefully useful for improving their lot.
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Post by lighthorseman on Jul 26, 2011 21:57:19 GMT -5
On a tangent... why do American laws have such weird, emotive but utterly non-descriptive names?
"California dream act"... sounds like its making listening to the Mammas and the Papas mandatory or something
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Post by Shane for Wax on Jul 26, 2011 22:01:18 GMT -5
On a tangent... why do American laws have such weird, emotive but utterly non-descriptive names? "California dream act"... sounds like its making listening to the Mammas and the Papas mandatory or something Appeal to Emotion. Bonus points if you connect it to the American Dream (like they did). |
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Post by Vene on Jul 26, 2011 22:09:45 GMT -5
So basically it's allowing a private buy-in for public schools. Making it legal for the government to accept money from the proceeds of a crime, how does this not surprise me? That is a "special" interpretation. This is the same logic that says it should be illegal to pay the neighborhood stoner to mow your lawn. You might not want said stoner to mow it, but that is a different question than whether you can offer compensation to said individual for a task. If you don't like "stoner" then change it to something like somebody with unpaid parking tickets or prostitute or "sodomite" pre-Lawrence v. Texas. Also, college=/government. |
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