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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 5, 2011 4:47:05 GMT -5
Probably because white people in the US are the privileged race, never having to have endure oppression or being rejected from a job based on an unconscious reaction to their skin color or such. ...Not that I agree with racism at all, but that's why no one bats an eyelash. Unless of course the white person is gay or anything else 'unseemly'. To be fair, it's more so not belonging to a minority that makes you privileged. The moment you find yourself associated with a minority, bye bye privileged status. |
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Post by Whore of Spamylon on Aug 5, 2011 5:53:45 GMT -5
When I saw the title, I thought the situation would be separated by one degree, in which people would mimic suburbanite wiggers of whom, in turn, mimic inner city youth culture.
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Aug 5, 2011 6:10:55 GMT -5
Whom mimic something else.
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Post by Distind on Aug 5, 2011 6:11:22 GMT -5
Unless of course the white person is gay or anything else 'unseemly'. To be fair, it's more so not belonging to a minority that makes you privileged. The moment you find yourself associated with a minority, bye bye privileged status. Why yes, the evil straight white male strikes again. One step closer to the plan of a world of nothing but straight white men. Though I would love to know what you mean by associated with a minority. |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 5, 2011 6:26:32 GMT -5
To be fair, it's more so not belonging to a minority that makes you privileged. The moment you find yourself associated with a minority, bye bye privileged status. Why yes, the evil straight white male strikes again. One step closer to the plan of a world of nothing but straight white men. Though I would love to know what you mean by associated with a minority. I think he means like when you're labeled as gay or so-forth. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 5, 2011 6:34:50 GMT -5
To be fair, it's more so not belonging to a minority that makes you privileged. The moment you find yourself associated with a minority, bye bye privileged status. Why yes, the evil straight white male strikes again. One step closer to the plan of a world of nothing but straight white men. Though I would love to know what you mean by associated with a minority. Huh? What? ...What Shane said. Belonging to a minority. Though with being gay, it's invisible until expressed or explained, so while you belong to the minority, as long as you're viewed as a straight white male, you aren't associated with the minority until proven that you are. Also, I didn't say anything about evil plans or conspiracies. If anything, "privileged" can be easily be more described as being complacent. |
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Post by lighthorseman on Aug 5, 2011 7:40:04 GMT -5
Given that its Minnesota... is it possible these kids don't actually know (m)any black people, thus don't see why this is any more potentially offensive than dressing up and acting as any other group they only know of from TV and movies? ipoaa.com/us_black_population.htm 3.4% of the population there. Same as Alaska. |
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 5, 2011 8:02:22 GMT -5
Though it does raise the question of why "Wigger Day" is highly frowned upon while nobody bats an eyelash at Dave Chappelle when he does pretty much the same thing on national TV. I personally didn't think that question had to be asked. You're asking why joked against a minority are treated differently than jokes against the majority? Serious question: Were you also puzzled by why it was okay to call "Curious" George Bush a monkey, but not Obama? Different scenarios often carry different standards. In my circle of friends, it's common to make "your mom" cracks. It's juvenile and stupid, but we never grew out of it. On the other hand, while those are taken in good nature, they'd probably lead to a cracked skull after someone's mom actually died. Or in public. Kind of similar to blacks saying "nigger" versus white saying it. There is carried a loaded confrontation. Just because you're not racist doesn't mean the word still isn't loaded. Just because you define it differenly (I've seen this a lot, white guys who quote the Chris Rock routine and seem to think it's suddenly okay to call people "niggers") doesn't make it okay to say to people carrying a very different udnerstanding from yours. And seriously, mocking a minority that was mocked all through slavery, segregation, and pretty much to this day as a way of treating them as inferior? This is bordering on a minstrel show. Can you tell me Dave Chappelle, or any mainstream black comedian carries that kind of context with him/her? I say mainstream, because fuck it. There probably is some underground comedian who has been preaching death to whitey for 30 years and has created their own context, but seriously. Plus, to be fair, I don't find Dave chappelle funny when he imitates white people. Or black people. Or ever, really. But seriously, context. We're not that far removed from blackface. I also hope you don't mind if I hold comedians to different standards in what they say than teenagers. George Carlin, Lennny Bruce, Richard Pryor, and so on all said some really offensive stuff. Onstage. For the sake of a laugh. A pundit who said that shit seriously? I'd take a little different. A bunch of kids deciding to do "wigger day?" Different. Even if Chappelle isn't funny. Speaking of, look at "Springtime for Hitler" videos on Youtube. There are a ton of people offended by the song when it's played out of context. They don't understand it's part of an overall show that ends up mocking the Nazis. And honestly, if someone had written "Springtime for Hitler and Germany//Goose Step's the new step today" and played it seriously, I'd probably be highly offended. But the Producers is great (1968, not that bastard remake...Though the remake does have John Barrowman as a prancing Nazi....Priceless). Especially when contrasted with the horrified looks from the audience (up until...THAT...Point). But again, surely we can discern the difference between a love letter to Hotler and a musical designed to be so offensive if closes on opening night. ...Well, most of us... Though maybe blacks are just oversensitive. I mean, I wouldn't mind being treated like a criminal just to be able to make offensive jokes about people. Or be unwelcome in places that don't like "my kind." And while we're at it, how can I get some of that sweet affirmative action? That's bad, too. How can we complain about discrimination of a local level when the Government does it? Errr...Hopefully I made my point. |
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 5, 2011 8:05:46 GMT -5
Given that its Minnesota... is it possible these kids don't actually know (m)any black people, thus don't see why this is any more potentially offensive than dressing up and acting as any other group they only know of from TV and movies? ipoaa.com/us_black_population.htm 3.4% of the population there. Same as Alaska. Which is why the article has a quote where this could be a "teachable moment." Unfortunately, it really wasn't. Kids were sent to change, and came back and did it again next time. And when there's black students complaining, maybe "how was I supposed to know?" Isn't a particularly good defense. They may not know many, but it was obviously bothering some. |
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Post by ltfred on Aug 5, 2011 8:18:29 GMT -5
Then again, I went to a high school that couldn't see why blacks were uncomfortable with a Confederate Flag hanging in our gym....So I'm kinda used to dumb white folks not "getting it." I'm of the view that anyone waving, owning or displaying a Confederate flag should excecuted as a traitor. That's the only thing the flag represents- treason, hatred, destruction of human rights and the historic inferiority of Southern political institutions and culture. People who raise that flag of treason are doing so to show their belief in and support for that behaviour and should be treated accordingly. Though it does raise the question of why "Wigger Day" is highly frowned upon while nobody bats an eyelash at Dave Chappelle when he does pretty much the same thing on national TV. Probably because white people in the US are the privileged race, never having to have endure oppression or being rejected from a job based on an unconscious reaction to their skin color or such. ...Not that I agree with racism at all, but that's why no one bats an eyelash. Racism is a system of prejudice and discrimination. No white American has ever been a victim of prejudice for being white. It is, therefore, a joke problem- a non-problem. The idea of pretending 'reverse-racism' isn't fake is to prevent action to end real discrimination. |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Aug 5, 2011 9:46:01 GMT -5
You know, I might live in NH, land of the snowy white mountains, fields, and complexions, but even we wouldn't pull shit like this, because luckily the only obvious racists don't have the power to make something like this up.
Though they still go and leave swastikas on cars and hang Confederate flags from their mud-splattered trucks.
But at least they don't have the power to pull shit like this!
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 5, 2011 10:41:27 GMT -5
Errr...Hopefully I made my point. Not as such, no. Were you stoned or something when you wrote that? I'm not trying to take the piss here, I'm genuinely curious as it seems rather disjointed and rambling as your posts go. The usual conciseness is just not there. Ah well, in any case, I may as well state my general views on the matter and hope that somehow provides an adequate response. Basically, when it comes to racism, my general view of the matter is that the best way to promote equality is to truly treat everyone equally. That means while sending the blacks to the back of the bus is big no-no, at the same so are things like saying it's ok for black people to say nigger but it's suddenly racist if white people say it. I can understand the reasoning, don't get me wrong, but it's still ultimately a double standard which feeds the mindset that race is a valid ground for differing rules. Furthermore, one thing that really irks me is white guilt. Now, that's not to say that I don't think something should be done about the higher rates of poverty within other races, not at all. My issue is largely two things. Firstly, that it's largely treated as a racial issue and that white people are expected to feel personally responsible for it. The latter is just plain silly becausethe entire population today, black or white, not even alive during the slave era and as such expecting someone who never even existed at the time to feel personally responsible just because of their European ancestry is ridiculous. The former I disagree with because it should be treated just as a social and economic issue. The American government's stance seems to see it as trying to help blacks (affirmative action the like), while they should approach it as trying to help the poor instead. In a nutshell, I'd simply like to see race as any sort of indicator of social privilege to simply die out and the only way to do that is to treat everyone as equal, no double standards or differing treatments of races of any sort. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense. As for Chappelle, I don't really have a problem with him and I do support his right to free speech and thus right to make fun of white people. I don't find him particularly funny (though he has his moments on occasion) though I do understand totally that the guy's a comedian and it's all in good fun so I got nothing against him. I imagine it was a similar mindset in at least the school district that allowed the event. Basically that it was purely for shits and giggles rather than to incite a race war. Of course, that raises the question of whether or not the students take a similar view. Then again, you could raise similar concerns regarding Chappelle's audience and fans. That said though, I do find myself reaching the conclusion that such an event is inappropriate. Largely because the school is a government institution, and the government's job regarding students is to educate them, not come up ways for them to amuse themselves. Besides, kids are perfectly capable of doing that on their own, they don't the help of tax dollars on that front. I guess you could argue my somewhat detached and somewhat nonchalant views regarding race is because my homeland of Australia is very monoracial so I just don't find the issues to be nearly as emotionally charged as most Americans tend to. But ah well, what are you going to do eh? So yeah, that's my couple of cents on the matter for whatever it's worth. I do hope y'all enjoyed this stinkin' great wall of text. |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 5, 2011 10:51:37 GMT -5
I actually have to agree with Art on I think every single one of his points. (Btw, the affirmative action/social privilege based on race argument made perfect sense to me, in case that wasn't a rhetorical question. Probably was.)
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Post by Amaranth on Aug 5, 2011 11:13:02 GMT -5
Not as such, no. Were you stoned or something when you wrote that? I'm not trying to take the piss here, I'm genuinely curious as it seems rather disjointed and rambling as your posts go. The usual conciseness is just not there. Giuven my frequent and vocal opposition to illegal drug use, I have trouble not taking that as a deliberately offensive statement. This is not like, something I mentioned in passing once or twice. Rather, it is a statement I believe so strongly it has put me at odds with several posters. Which, incidentally, is a decent demonstration of context. "Are you high" is generally considered cute, but not to me. It's only really a double standard if one takes a strictly black-and-white approach to it. You "understand the reasoning," but are still broad-brushing things. The pejorative nature of "nigger" is ot new or sudden, nor was it ever particularly sudden. New, perhaps, but never particularly sudden. It's not particularly reasonable to expect the same things to hold the same meaning two different groups with different experiences. It may be "unfair" that they get to say "nigger" without retribution, but it is not unreasonable. Then come, white brother, let us whale upon that strawman together. I am certain two of us can surely take this immobile, inanimate construct! Seriously, this is the Fox News line confusing things like "respect" with "contrition" and "understanding" with "defeat." Or "concern for others" with "white guilt." I've no doubt "white guilt" exists, but the expectation of it is one of those silly anti-PC bogeymen conservatives have relied on for years to justify "reclamation"of...I don't know what....White power or something. I'd like teenagers not to have sex at all. It's a nice ideal, but impractical. In a nutshell, just like your ideal. Barring that, we can either accept reality and work within it, or we can push for things ideal and completely unrealistic. Further, until every black person use the word "nigger," it's hard to try and hold a double standard. A lot of the people made uncomfortable do not condone the use of the word. It's a false double standard often at least as often as not. Will some people use their "minority" status to their advantage? Yes, but going down that road is very similar to discrediting rape because some women lie. Legally, ethically, logoically, we consider that dirty pool. I am having trouble seeing any reason for that beyond "it's convenient to my case." Please, do explain. Yes, I read your "shits and giggles" argument. That was the same one used when a couple of teens were questioned by the cops after hanging a "lynched" dummy outside a black guy's home here. You can do something intentionally hurtful for "shits and giggles." Hell, half the internet is built around that one one level or another. We could drop you in a country where you are a hated minority, but it would be costly, time consuming and dangerous. So probably not the best solution. Barring that...Ummmm.... |
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Post by the sandman on Aug 5, 2011 12:11:43 GMT -5
When I was little, I thought a "wigger" was someone who wore funny wigs. It used to annoy me that people described "wiggers" as white guys who "acted black," Because I dislike the notion that you can act like a skin colour. I've given up since, but the term is still kind of annoying. Especially when you consider it comes from "White Nigger." Hey, what a lovely unoffensive term. Does the school have any black students? And if so, do they get to act like Dave Chappelle when he parodies white people? To be fair, it IS Minnesota. They're not quite as white as Vermont, but they only beat us by three or four people. >.> I won't let my student's use the term "wigger." I insist on the term "wanabro." |
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