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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Aug 5, 2011 12:13:04 GMT -5
No white American has ever been a victim of prejudice for being white. That's kind of a stretch. Whites certainly haven't experienced persecution or been subjected to systematic racism, and white privilege is still very much alive and well, but it's difficult to believe that, in the entire history of the US, no white person has ever been a victim of a hate crime based upon their race. The real difference is that racism against whites has never been sponsored by the government and American cultural norms, or been present to anywhere near the same degree as it is for blacks. Those who whine about affirmative action and the like would have you believe that the cards are stacked unfavourably against whites, which is not and never has been the case. Long story short, a white person as an individual might experience racial bigotry at some point in their lifetime, albeit to a much, much lesser degree than minorities, but whites as a group have never endured systematic prejudice, and the resulting persecution. Racism against whites is incidental. Racism against blacks? Not so much. It's always a bit jarring to me when I see someone openly wearing or displaying the Confederate flag. I realize that it's seen as an embodiment of Southern Pride in some parts of the US, rather than a symbol of racism, but it's generally associated with white nationalists where I live, kind of like much softer version of a Swastika. |
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Post by Vene on Aug 5, 2011 12:14:44 GMT -5
To be fair, it IS Minnesota. They're not quite as white as Vermont, but they only beat us by three or four people. >.> This particular town would be worse, the non-whites are in the Twin Cities only. Inside of Minneapolis-St Paul we're pretty good, outside of it we're insane. |
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Post by Vene on Aug 5, 2011 12:16:50 GMT -5
No white American has ever been a victim of prejudice for being white. What comes to mind is the Irish. |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 5, 2011 12:26:37 GMT -5
Giuven my frequent and vocal opposition to illegal drug use, I have trouble not taking that as a deliberately offensive statement. This is not like, something I mentioned in passing once or twice. Rather, it is a statement I believe so strongly it has put me at odds with several posters. Which, incidentally, is a decent demonstration of context. "Are you high" is generally considered cute, but not to me. I tended not to read the drug-related drama fests, so I was unaware you were vehemently opposed to illegal drugs. In any case, I do apologise for that comment. It was a rather stupid remark on my part. It's only really a double standard if one takes a strictly black-and-white approach to it. You "understand the reasoning," but are still broad-brushing things. The pejorative nature of "nigger" is ot new or sudden, nor was it ever particularly sudden. New, perhaps, but never particularly sudden. It's not particularly reasonable to expect the same things to hold the same meaning two different groups with different experiences. It may be "unfair" that they get to say "nigger" without retribution, but it is not unreasonable. I am well aware of the historical meaning of the word nigger, particularly during the days of slavery. However, my point isn't that it's somehow unfair to white people that they don't get to say it, just that it's largely an example of something that's intended to lessen racial tensions, but seems to have the opposite effect. The fact that it's so taboo for non-blacks to say it, which is good intentioned, in the end only serves to highlight rather then repair racial tensions. Then come, white brother, let us whale upon that strawman together. I am certain two of us can surely take this immobile, inanimate construct! Seriously, this is the Fox News line confusing things like "respect" with "contrition" and "understanding" with "defeat." Or "concern for others" with "white guilt." I've no doubt "white guilt" exists, but the expectation of it is one of those silly anti-PC bogeymen conservatives have relied on for years to justify "reclamation"of...I don't know what....White power or something. I know it's hardly prevalent to the extent the teabagger types would like to think, but as you said it exists nevertheless. I don't for a second feel threatened by it or anything of the sort, I'm just saying, I'm just saying it's existence is one of those things that's largely counter-productive in terms of racial harmony. Like I said, we end up with things like Affirmative Action, which is well intentioned but treats poverty as a racial rather than socio-economic issue and ultimately reinforces rather than weakens the idea that race somehow matters. I'd like teenagers not to have sex at all. It's a nice ideal, but impractical. In a nutshell, just like your ideal. Barring that, we can either accept reality and work within it, or we can push for things ideal and completely unrealistic. I don't think that's an apt comparison. One is a hard wired and largely insatiable biological urge that hits hardest in all its hormone-fuelled fury during the teenage years whereas the other is a purely social practise based on minor physical differences. Besides, considering that throughout history social practises constantly change and that given only 60 years ago it seemed perfectly reasonable to most people to ban interracial marriage, things seem to be trending in the right direction. I'm not saying it can be achieved overnight or with little effort, I'm just saying it's the end goal that society should aim for. Further, until every black person use the word "nigger," it's hard to try and hold a double standard. A lot of the people made uncomfortable do not condone the use of the word. It's a false double standard often at least as often as not. Will some people use their "minority" status to their advantage? Yes, but going down that road is very similar to discrediting rape because some women lie. Legally, ethically, logoically, we consider that dirty pool. What? You misunderstand me quite a lot. For starters, where did I say minorities should be denied social services because they'll supposedly take advantage? You'll find I said something to the effect of there most definitely be efforts made to help impoverished minorities. However, it should be done not because of their race, but because they're you know, impoverished. Basically, treat all people the same and help the poor without reinforcing the idea that different races require different treatment. As for taking advantage. Well, there'll be individuals of every demographic who do that sort of thing whenever they can, be they white, black, latino, gay, transgender, fat, thin, albino, whateverthefuck, simply because they're lazy. That really has no bearing on the issue at hand. I am having trouble seeing any reason for that beyond "it's convenient to my case." Please, do explain. Yes, I read your "shits and giggles" argument. That was the same one used when a couple of teens were questioned by the cops after hanging a "lynched" dummy outside a black guy's home here. You can do something intentionally hurtful for "shits and giggles." Hell, half the internet is built around that one one level or another. What I mean is, much like Chappelle's antics, it was supposed to be all in good fun (i.e. not intentionally hurtful, which incidentally is why it's acceptable for Chappelle to do it). Granted, I'm not a telepath but I would very much like to think that the school district did not allow it as a way of showing hatred to blacks. At least, I really hope that's the case, or something is very wrong with the Minnesota Department of Education screening process. Though I also said I ultimately agreed that the school was in the wrong for allowing it so I'm not sure what the issue is. We could drop you in a country where you are a hated minority, but it would be costly, time consuming and dangerous. So probably not the best solution. Barring that...Ummmm.... I think I'll pass on that one. Crazy I know, but I do like my safety. |
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 5, 2011 12:28:55 GMT -5
No white American has ever been a victim of prejudice for being white. What comes to mind is the Irish. Also, that story someone posted on the old boards (I think) of a white fellow who was bashed by some black youths because he had a black girlfriend. |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Aug 5, 2011 12:33:09 GMT -5
It used to annoy me that people described "wiggers" as white guys who "acted black," Because I dislike the notion that you can act like a skin colour. I've given up since, but the term is still kind of annoying. Especially when you consider it comes from "White Nigger." Hey, what a lovely unoffensive term. To be fair, it IS Minnesota. They're not quite as white as Vermont, but they only beat us by three or four people. >.> I won't let my student's use the term "wigger." I insist on the term "wanabro." Ohohohohohoooo...Sandman, I love you! |
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Post by Shane for Wax on Aug 5, 2011 12:36:04 GMT -5
No white American has ever been a victim of prejudice for being white. What comes to mind is the Irish. and the Italians... They had their fair share of that too in the 19th and 20th centuries. |
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Post by Vene on Aug 5, 2011 12:37:01 GMT -5
Like I said, we end up with things like Affirmative Action, which is well intentioned but treats poverty as a racial rather than socio-economic issue and ultimately reinforces rather than weakens the idea that race somehow matters. Totally not racial.  |
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Aug 5, 2011 13:01:29 GMT -5
It used to annoy me that people described "wiggers" as white guys who "acted black," Because I dislike the notion that you can act like a skin colour. I've given up since, but the term is still kind of annoying. Especially when you consider it comes from "White Nigger." Hey, what a lovely unoffensive term. To be fair, it IS Minnesota. They're not quite as white as Vermont, but they only beat us by three or four people. >.> I won't let my student's use the term "wigger." I insist on the term "wanabro." My friends and I use "gangsta." That is the subculture that they're trying to emulate, and it's better than a mush of racial slurs. And then we can laugh at them for trying to act like members of a gang in rural New Hampshire, where the worst crime is hunting illegally. |
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Post by nickiknack on Aug 5, 2011 15:29:57 GMT -5
another term that can be used is "ghetto"
I hate anyone of any race acts like that period...
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Post by canadian mojo on Aug 5, 2011 15:38:35 GMT -5
I'm of the view that anyone waving, owning or displaying a Confederate flag should excecuted as a traitor. That's the only thing the flag represents- treason, hatred, destruction of human rights and the historic inferiority of Southern political institutions and culture. People who raise that flag of treason are doing so to show their belief in and support for that behaviour and should be treated accordingly. And here we have a textbook example demonstrating how both ends of the political spectrum suck donkey dick. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 5, 2011 15:54:14 GMT -5
I'm of the view that anyone waving, owning or displaying a Confederate flag should excecuted as a traitor. That's the only thing the flag represents- treason, hatred, destruction of human rights and the historic inferiority of Southern political institutions and culture. People who raise that flag of treason are doing so to show their belief in and support for that behaviour and should be treated accordingly. And here we have a textbook example demonstrating how both ends of the political spectrum suck donkey dick. We needed one? |
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Post by discoberry on Aug 5, 2011 16:03:29 GMT -5
While I totally agree with you that "racism against whites has never been sponsored by the government and American cultural norms" the above statement is a huge stretch.
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Post by ltfred on Aug 5, 2011 16:08:06 GMT -5
I'm of the view that anyone waving, owning or displaying a Confederate flag should excecuted as a traitor. That's the only thing the flag represents- treason, hatred, destruction of human rights and the historic inferiority of Southern political institutions and culture. People who raise that flag of treason are doing so to show their belief in and support for that behaviour and should be treated accordingly. And here we have a textbook example demonstrating how both ends of the political spectrum suck donkey dick. Do you not agree that the Confederate Flag is a symbol only of treason? No white American has ever been a victim of prejudice for being white. What comes to mind is the Irish. Who were persecuted as percieved non-Americans. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 5, 2011 16:28:20 GMT -5
And here we have a textbook example demonstrating how both ends of the political spectrum suck donkey dick. Do you not agree that the Confederate Flag is a symbol only of treason? Do you not agree that mass genocide of a people because of their use of a symbol is a completely unreasonable reaction? |
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