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Post by Jodie on Sept 22, 2011 5:11:34 GMT -5
This is the first time I've ever thought this way about you, and I apologize, but FUCK YOU Obama. |
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Post by scotsgit on Sept 22, 2011 5:44:05 GMT -5
This is the first time I've ever thought this way about you, and I apologize, but FUCK YOU Obama. And only a year ago he was promising to support a Palestinian state. After the Arab Spring when he was one of those calling for democracy for the Middle East, it seems that once again, some animals are more equal than others. |
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Post by tolpuddlemartyr on Sept 22, 2011 5:58:24 GMT -5
Frankly I can't see how the pro-Israel side has a case to answer, if Palestine is a state then any actions by a Palestinian government could be condemned by the international community if it really does try to cause the nonexistence of Israel.
Because Israel surely knows that a state can be held liable for it's actions if it upsets the majority of the international community...oh wait!
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Post by Armand Tanzarian on Sept 22, 2011 12:34:03 GMT -5
Frankly I can't see how the pro-Israel side has a case to answer, if Palestine is a state then any actions by a Palestinian government could be condemned by the international community if it really does try to cause the nonexistence of Israel. Because Israel surely knows that a state can be held liable for it's actions if it upsets the majority of the international community...oh wait! The pro-Israeli side has no case. Their hand has never been weaker and they still managed to overplay it. Bibi probably thought he's God after he was able to reject Obama's offer for a 2-state solution last year. But the complacency of the Obama administration probably seals the deal that this is the beginning of the end of American influence in the region, and that's just the way the people like it. This article depicts Bibi's stubbornness and how it contributed to Palestine's newfound bullheadedness. Admittedly it is very pro-Palestine and all too forgiving of Obama, depicting him as helpless instead of complacent, but its an insightful read for those who don't see why Netanyahu has been the worst thing to happen to Israel in the last decade. www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/19/israel-s-benjamin-netanyahu-could-have-prevented-un-vote-on-palestinian-statehood.html |
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Post by brendanrizzo on Sept 22, 2011 12:46:54 GMT -5
Geez, Obama is against this? I made some comments which I promptly got flamed for and even I think that Obama has crossed the line. Why must my country's reputation be ruined at every turn? Right now, I'm convinced that America's reputation now is worse than Britain's was when the British Empire was at its height, and that is a very difficult "achievement".
As for the guy who said "Democracy is a white man with a gun", fuck you. So you're basically saying that only white people believe in or can have democracy? And you wonder why conservatives decry the cultural relativism of the left...
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Post by Armand Tanzarian on Sept 22, 2011 12:55:13 GMT -5
As for the guy who said "Democracy is a white man with a gun", fuck you. So you're basically saying that only white people believe in or can have democracy? And you wonder why conservatives decry the cultural relativism of the left... I think that quote was sarcasm. Its a reference to the Bush rhetoric during the beginning of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and a sly reference to the (wholly serious and misguided) Colonial British concept of the "White Man's Burden" to civilize the peoples of Asia, Africa and America. But what do I know, not a white man.  |
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Post by brendanrizzo on Sept 22, 2011 13:05:24 GMT -5
As for the guy who said "Democracy is a white man with a gun", fuck you. So you're basically saying that only white people believe in or can have democracy? And you wonder why conservatives decry the cultural relativism of the left... I think that quote was sarcasm. Its a reference to the Bush rhetoric during the beginning of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and a sly reference to the (wholly serious and misguided) Colonial British concept of the "White Man's Burden" to civilize the peoples of Asia, Africa and America. But what do I know, not a white man. Geez people, we have sarcasm tags for a reason... |
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Post by MaybeNever on Sept 22, 2011 13:06:49 GMT -5
As for the guy who said "Democracy is a white man with a gun", fuck you. So you're basically saying that only white people believe in or can have democracy? And you wonder why conservatives decry the cultural relativism of the left... I think that quote was sarcasm. Its a reference to the Bush rhetoric during the beginning of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and a sly reference to the (wholly serious and misguided) Colonial British concept of the "White Man's Burden" to civilize the peoples of Asia, Africa and America. But what do I know, not a white man. However, I will still allow you to build my railroads and pull my rickshaws. |
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Post by Kit Walker on Sept 22, 2011 13:09:17 GMT -5
This is the first time I've ever thought this way about you, and I apologize, but FUCK YOU Obama. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he supports Palestine, any violence that happens in Israel in the next 12 months, any violent rhetoric out of a Palestinian official (from the dog catcher on up) hands the Republicans a perfect "Obama supports the destruction of Israel!" campaign ad. And would probably make courting the Jewish voters incredibly difficult. As a compassionate human being, I feel Obama should fuck politics and do the right thing in supporting Palestinian statehood. As an incredibly selfish American, I think Obama should throw people on the other side of the world under the nearest bus if it prevents us from having a Republican take the White House. He can fight for them when he's a lame duck. Fight for me now. Geez people, we have sarcasm tags for a reason... ...You thought someone responding to "Palestine does has democracy, even if we don't like the results" with "Democracy is a white man with a gun" was being both serious and positive? On this board? And we're the ones who need to do things different? |
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Post by Vene on Sept 22, 2011 14:35:03 GMT -5
I think that quote was sarcasm. Its a reference to the Bush rhetoric during the beginning of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and a sly reference to the (wholly serious and misguided) Colonial British concept of the "White Man's Burden" to civilize the peoples of Asia, Africa and America. But what do I know, not a white man. Geez people, we have sarcasm tags for a reason... But this is funnier. |
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Post by Amaranth on Sept 22, 2011 16:26:43 GMT -5
Remember when the big scare was that he was pro palestine? Well, there goes that. |
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Post by scotsgit on Sept 22, 2011 18:41:50 GMT -5
Geez, Obama is against this? I made some comments which I promptly got flamed for and even I think that Obama has crossed the line. Why must my country's reputation be ruined at every turn? Right now, I'm convinced that America's reputation now is worse than Britain's was when the British Empire was at its height, and that is a very difficult "achievement". The difference is that the British Empire never said it was anything but that: It didn't tell people it was there to spread democracy and it didn't say it was a fair system. It did fight a lot of wars (either to pacify occupied regions or to take new regions) but it was never claimed this was done in the name of anything other than glorification of Britain. Incidentally, at its height, the British Empire was widely admired: Since then that reputation has changed. |
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Post by junastarrider on Sept 22, 2011 19:04:39 GMT -5
For the general public in America, it seems that not supporting Israel is equivalent to being anti-semite. Ironically, considering that prior to WWII, (and even after that), Anti-semitism was all the rage. Jewish people have the weirdest relationship with the right-wingers, I feel. Conservatives love pandering to them for votes, yet in the deep dark recesses of their minds, many right-wingers still believe that the "Jews" own all the banks, all the media, and all the governments.
Obama realized that the general derpy American has been fed a diet of "Israel is our bestest friend EVAR" from the media (Which, I'd like to say, is NOT controlled by a secret cartel of money hungry Jews, despite what my mother in law says), that Obama, who is trying to retain all the support he can, will side with Israel.
And I'm not going to be angry at just Obama. Stephen Harper is pretty much as, going so far as to cut off diplomatic relationships with Palestine the moment the people voted in Hamas, the only alternative to a rather corrupt Fatah, at the time.
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Post by booley on Sept 22, 2011 20:38:37 GMT -5
... As for the guy who said "Democracy is a white man with a gun", fuck you. So you're basically saying that only white people believe in or can have democracy? And you wonder why conservatives decry the cultural relativism of the left... As already pointed out this was probably sarcasm. To me it seemed a sly reference to the ugly fact that this country has over overthrown so many democracies.. in the name of spreading democracy. And by a weird coincidence this tends to most often happen in countries where brown people live. |
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Post by ltfred on Sept 23, 2011 3:30:39 GMT -5
And would probably make courting the Jewish voters incredibly difficult. Jews are the strongest Democratic voters in the land. 80% of them vote Democrat, every election in the same numbers. Israel/Palestine propaganda wouldn't be aimed at them (bullshit claims that Democrats don't really work on Jews anyway, because they know what REAL anti-semitism is). It'd be aimed at some other demographic group, probably women. Interesting article on that, actually: www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2877306.html. Basically, Likud propagandists have embraced known anti-semitic fascists* in their media war with leftists and moderates who want resolution to the war. This is a problem for the Likudniks, because fascists still hate Jews they just talk about it so much. it was never claimed this was done in the name of anything other than glorification of Britain. And the betterment of the 'lesser people'. Bringing the Christianity and education and bayonets and such. White Man's Burden and all. By European conservatives, who still quite like the idea of ripping off black people at gunpoint. The Germans and the Russians, for instance, envied the British forcing the Indians to run a permanent trade deficit to England. The people who didn't like imperialism- the lower and middle class- still don't like it. The upper class still do. And, of course, the actual people occupying the colonies in this Empire still hate being ripped off. * Literal fascists, these people call themselves fascists. |
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