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Post by Trillian on Apr 23, 2009 2:24:38 GMT -5
Thanks!
I am a single mom, and I can relate to your story from the other side. I used to have an internet dating profile where I clearly say that I have a child, and DO NOT want any more children.
I would often get messages from men who made it clear in their profiles that they are not interested in dating a woman with a child/children.
I would, initially, just ignore those messages, but eventually sent a reply that went something like this "Dear xyz, Thank you for your e-mail expressing interest in me. I see from your profile that you are very clear in you desire not to date a woman who has a child. I respect your decisive position on this matter, and applaud you for being honest in what you are looking for. However, it must be noted that my child will not simply disappear because you think I am cute."
Honestly, if I was not already someones mother, I would probably not want to date someone with children either.
The guy I sent that too got very defensive, trying to justify his position. Really, it doesn't need justifying. What you WANT is what YOU want.
Seriously, people are weird.
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Post by Trillian on Apr 23, 2009 2:08:45 GMT -5
I'm nostalgicsexual. I remember it fondly. ;D OMG, that was funny!! Me too. That describes it perfectly :-)
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Post by Trillian on Apr 23, 2009 2:02:43 GMT -5
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is CF?
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Post by Trillian on Apr 15, 2009 7:03:02 GMT -5
I agree with everything you have said in this thread, and I get what you mean. HATE is such a strong word, and in my mind evokes images of radicals ( I hate Christians, atheists, blacks, whites, Mexicans, "insert other group here"). I don't much like babies, they are just poo and snot machines, but it doesn't even come close to hate. I actually can't think of anyone who I do hate. hate–verb (used without object) to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility. Who feels hostility towards children? Slang... make friends with it.
And just to clarify, I don't mean find the word "slang" in the dictionary and ask it to go to the movies, okay? I'm utilizing colourful language that is not to be taken as the Real McCoy all the time and you can take that to the bank, mi amigo. I haven't been here long enough to know that "hate" is thrown around so willy-nilly. It's a really strong word to me, and I hardly ever use it. Rapists hate women. Thats the kind of image it sends me. Slang, maybe. But when the same word can be translated one way in slang, and another in proper English, how is one supposed to know the difference?
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Post by Trillian on Apr 15, 2009 6:39:56 GMT -5
Red, as to explaining my stance, I think Bluefinger sums it up best. As I've said repeatedly, I have no problem with people who don't want to have kids--my husband and I plan to have none. I have no problem with people disliking kids, either. I think, however, to say that people hate kids, especially based on characteristics that seem incredibly shallow, could be applied to other groups, etc. is a problem. It's a problem even if only because kids have to go out in the world and deal with adults other than their family members. The analogies are apt, because it's an example of picking a perceived characteristic that a group of people have in common and using it as a justification for hating an entire group. That's what confuses me--not the fact that people don't want kids; the fact that some people are claiming to hate them based on logic that we would normally mock otherwise. As a good example, Aqualung said that one of the reasons she hated kids was because they were abusive to animals--she cites as an example a recent thread about a teenager. Does that logically follow that all teens abuse animals? No, it doesn't. In fact, animal abuse is quite rare in children and a sign of a serious problem. Not the norm. What confuses me is why it would be treated as "the norm" for an entire group. Hope that helps. I agree with everything you have said in this thread, and I get what you mean. HATE is such a strong word, and in my mind evokes images of radicals ( I hate Christians, atheists, blacks, whites, Mexicans, "insert other group here"). I don't much like babies, they are just poo and snot machines, but it doesn't even come close to hate. I actually can't think of anyone who I do hate. hate–verb (used without object) to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility. Who feels hostility towards children?
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Post by Trillian on Apr 15, 2009 6:33:07 GMT -5
Red: They always cap it with, "Well if you just have one, you'll change your mind." That's the same argument my parents used to try and get me to eat brussel sprouts. (EW!) And no, I didn't change my mind. I love my nieces, love them to death, but I still have no desire to pop out kids of my own. If anyone thinks less of me for not breeding, it's THEIR PROBLEM, NOT MINE. A-fucking-men. And about that whole "Society doesn't treat the childless any different!" statement... No offense, DV, but you really don't have any grounds on which to base that. You have children, so you don't have to deal with the garbage that gets thrown at women (and men) like me, who prefer to be child free (not less, as less implies that there's something missing from my life, which there isn't. Not in that manner, anyway.) I've been bullied by people (usually older men) for admitting that I don't like children and don't want them. I had every singe excuse from "You're just too young to decide yet" to "You just don't know what you want" to the good old standby "You'll change your mind when you have one!" crammed forcibly down my throat by people who could only see things from their point of view - i.e. "When your husband decides to have kids, you'll find out that you really love them. We/Our wives did!" No. No, I wouldn't. But these people - these parents - refused to listen to my very valid reasons for not liking or wanting children (when I brought up my family's history of crippling mental illness, I got the whole "Just adopt!" line, as if that would magically make things better) and kept pressing and pressing and pressing their "points," eventually writing me off as some kind of abnormal freak who wanted to kill kids, just because I didn't want to have any.I've been told that I'm not a "real woman" just because I don't like or want children. I've been treated like some kind of dangerous psychopath because of my child-aversion... Though to be fair, I can be a dangerous psychopath - just ask anyone who knows me - but it takes very specific triggers to set me off. Like someone harming defenseless animals OR CHILDREN. I've even been treated like some kind of mental deficient for my stance. So... How is that "not being treated differently?" Abusive parents and complete incompetents are treated like better people than me, just because they chose to reproduce. I'd say that's bring treated very differently by society. It's awful that you have been treated this way!! How can people be so insensitive and rude. Your decision is yours to make, after all you will be one who has to feed, clothe, etc, etc this child everyone says you should be having! As a parent, I certainly would never react this way to your decision not to have children. Not all 'breeders' are like that! I also (sort of) know what you mean, my pregnancy was an accident, and though I love my daughter more than life itself, I never stop getting asked when am I going to have another one, I cannot let my daughter be an only child, blah, blah, blah! I am quite happy with my little family thankyouverymuch, and wish people would just let other people be - damn it!
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Post by Trillian on Apr 15, 2009 2:01:49 GMT -5
There is NO better feeling than holding your child as she falls asleep, or actually feeling the kind of love that makes your heart physically want to burst from your body. How about heroin? Yeah, but loving your kid wont kill you
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Post by Trillian on Apr 15, 2009 1:59:36 GMT -5
There is NO better feeling than holding your child as she falls asleep, or actually feeling the kind of love that makes your heart physically want to burst from your body. They say you don't know true love until you have a child, and that is so true. People who have children know that feeling, those who don't, don't - it's not explainable. That is EXACTLY how I felt about my kittehs. And no, I'm not popping out any kids. Ever. (I'll stick to spoiling other people's children, k?) Good for you. Like I said before, having children is a HUGE financial and personal commitment. Someone such as yourself who clearly knows what they want, is everything that is right. At least you know where you stand. And PS. I love all my pets A LOT (I never go on holiday, because I cannot bear to leave my dogs and cat behind), but it doesn't even come close to the love I have for my child.
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Post by Trillian on Apr 15, 2009 1:52:36 GMT -5
I'm sorry, what? The love I have for my child is not real? WTF?
Okay so maybe I have not experienced every feeling or high in the world, but it is certainly the best feeling I have ever experienced. What exactly is it that I need to feel better about? Being a dedicated parent? Loving my child? Doing everything I can to make sure my child is a strong, fair and loving individual? What, please enlighten me?
I barely understand this statement? How can you know something unless you've tried it? I cannot know what an apple tastes like, unless I eat an apple. I cannot know what it feels like to go on a rollercoaster, unless I go on a rollercoaster. I cannot know the love I feel for my child, unless I have a child.
And how exactly is my specific experience made different because some people make crap parents? Usually the people who haven't thought the whole parenting thing through? Or those who know that they would make crap parents, but choose to have children anyway.
How, please tell me? How is this specious and exclusionary? I am not making a judgement on those who choose not to have children I am simply saying that there is no feeling like the love one has for their child! THAT IS ALL. There is no hidden agenda, or judgement, or implication. What I said should be taken at face value for exactly what I said, as an answer to a question.
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Post by Trillian on Apr 14, 2009 6:41:47 GMT -5
Just for the record, my daughter is rational WAY beyond her 8 years ;-)
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Post by Trillian on Apr 14, 2009 6:40:27 GMT -5
Erictheblue, I made no such assumption. The question was why do people enjoy being parents and I answered that. Your (or anyones) decision not to have children is purely yours. If I had not had an "oopsie" at 24, I may not have been a mom today.
The love one has for their child is so different from the love they have for their wife/lover/parent/sibling. This is the truth. In my opinion it is better. But you can't know that love if you have not child. That is not a judgement, just a fact (you can't taste the mango, unless you eat it.)
I don't judge you, I think it is comendable that you take the decision so seriously. More people should take the decision to become a parent more seriously. Little people are VERY time consuming, and expensive.
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Post by Trillian on Apr 14, 2009 6:10:07 GMT -5
There is NO better feeling than holding your child as she falls asleep, or actually feeling the kind of love that makes your heart physically want to burst from your body. They say you don't know true love until you have a child, and that is so true. People who have children know that feeling, those who don't, don't - it's not explainable.
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Post by Trillian on Apr 8, 2009 10:10:31 GMT -5
Thanks Lazy One. I agree his facts are a bit off. I need to go home. It's the end of the working day here in S.Africa and I really should stop being on the internet, and go home :-) This was fun, I'll come back tomorrow and post some bible verses to get people really rilled up (okay that was a joke - please don't ban me, powers that be!)
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Post by Trillian on Apr 8, 2009 10:06:26 GMT -5
Okay, I get that this guy is worthy of critism and mocking. I just truly don't see the fundie in this. But I guess that is just my opinion.
I would just like to say thank you to brendanjd, szaleniec, Armand, blue finger, Redhunter and erictheblue for the reasonable responses to a question, which in my opinion, was not judgemental nor criticising, just a question.
For Vene. No need to be so defensive. It was truly just a question, not a judgement on the whole site (or you), which I find truly entertaining for the most part (the site, not you), and have commented on some of the entries. I am not trying to tell you that you are doing it wrong, simply that this particular one did not smack of fundie (in my opinion), and so I asked a perfectly legitimate question.
For dantesvirgin. No need to be flabbergasted. When what you say is said on Youtube, then no, it really doesn't matter. When what you say is said to (whoever you Americans have to say it to for it to become legislation), than yes, it does matter. This was said on Youtube, that was actually part of my point.
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Post by Trillian on Apr 8, 2009 7:40:11 GMT -5
And I agree with you - but being wrong does not make you a fundie. He was not discussing this on a scientific forum, a christian forum, or even ranting on an athiest forum. So, I ask, with all due respect, why fundie?
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